The Dishonoring of Ashara Dayne
Feb 26, 2016 4:13:24 GMT
Maester Flagons, Weasel Pie, and 3 more like this
Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Feb 26, 2016 4:13:24 GMT
Don't ask me how this idea came to fruition; I honestly don't remember. I house a spiderweb of random data the size of Central Park in my brain; all strands connected, and if one strand is tweaked, the whole web shimmies.
Anyhoo, much talk of Ashara's role during the Rebellion, and of couse much ado made of her "dishonoring" mentioned by Ser Barristan Selmy in A Dance With Dragons, The Kingbreaker:
Rhaegar had chosen Lyanna Stark of Winterfell. Barristan Selmy would have made a different choice. Not the queen, who was not present. Nor Elia of Dorne, though she was good and gentle; had she been chosen, much war and woe might have been avoided. His choice would have been a young maiden not long at court, one of Elia's companions … though compared to Ashara Dayne, the Dornish princess was a kitchen drab.
Even after all these years, Ser Barristan could still recall Ashara's smile, the sound of her laughter. He had only to close his eyes to see her, with her long dark hair tumbling about her shoulders and those haunting purple eyes. Daenerys has the same eyes. Sometimes when the queen looked at him, he felt as if he were looking at Ashara's daughter …
But Ashara's daughter had been stillborn, and his fair lady had thrown herself from a tower soon after, mad with grief for the child she had lost, and perhaps for the man who had dishonored her at Harrenhal as well. She died never knowing that Ser Barristan had loved her. How could she? He was a knight of the Kingsguard, sworn to celibacy. No good could have come from telling her his feelings. No good came from silence either. If I had unhorsed Rhaegar and crowned Ashara queen of love and beauty, might she have looked to me instead of Stark?
First, let's look at this statement.
So Rhaegar wins the tourney and crowns Lyanna as QoLaB...and apparently some time after, Ashara "looks to Stark."
Barristan wonders if Ashara would have looked to him had he won the tourney/chosen Ashara as QoLaB - implying that Ashara took note of the victor of the tournament....a victor that she later "looked to". A victor that was a Stark.
Except no male Stark was victorious at Harrenhal. Of all the Starks present, only Lyanna, recipient of the laurel of QoLaB, could be considered a winner of sorts.
Doesn't make sense, does it?
So this begs the question:
Did Ashara Dayne "look to" Lyanna Stark?
Have we been focusing in the wrong place?
Follow along with me here.
Why would Ashara "look to" the lone female wolf?
Barristan says:
If Rhaegar as victor of the tourney had chosen his own wife instead of another woman, much war and woe might have been avoided....and Ashara might not have looked to Stark.
Why would Ashara Dayne not bat an eye had she or even Elia been crowned, but been compelled to "look to Stark" once Lyanna had received the glory?
Ashara Dayne was Rhaegar's paramour.
GRRM on Rhaegar/Elia's relationship: "It's complicated." Was Rhaegar using Ashara as bedwarmer? What if the answer is yes? And to take it further, what if she fell in love? Ashara sees Lyanna crowned at HH. Becomes jealous, targets Lyanna. Rats her out to....who? Aerys?
If Ashara was Rhaegar’s paramour, she wouldn’t have a problem with Rhaegar crowning Elia…she’s already his wife, and Ashara would be accustomed to that relationship. And, obviously, a paramour certainly wouldn't take issue should she receive the laurel herself. However, Rhaegar showing attention to a woman besides the paramour OR the wife? A woman that a paramour doesn’t know, one that might threaten her position? That’s a problem.
Rhaegar was the winner of the Harrenhal tourney.
Rhaegar gave honors to Lyanna Stark.
Ashara Dayne was dishonored at Harrenhal.
Ashara returned to Dorne at some point between the Tourney and the end of the Rebellion.
Per Jaime, Rhaegar "returned from the south" to take control of the royal forces.
Ashara had a stillborn daughter.
Ashara Dayne committed suicide after Ned brought news to Starfall - mad with grief over her child, and the man who dishonored her at Harrenhal.
Grief, meaning over one who has died.
Rhaegar died at the Trident.
Daenerys has Ashara's eyes.
To boot, Ashara was "not long at court" at Harrenhal per Barristan, and per text and SSM Ashara returned to Starfall at some point during the war, since she was hanging out there when Ned arrived to return Dawn. Did she leave King's Landing/Dragonstone voluntarily, or was she sent away?
Excerpt from TWOIAF that may establish precedent:
Like father, like son?
Furthermore, Elia births Rhaenys, and is bedridden for 6 months after due to the difficulty. She recovers, possibly goes to Dorne (my crackpot interpretation of her KWB encounter), attends the grandest tourney of all time with no mention of pregnancy but miraculously has a new son a few months later, born on the privacy of Dragonstone. Where was Ashara during this time? Did Ashara give birth to baby Aegon? Then we have the HotU vision: Dark-haired woman nursing a babe in a huge wooden bed - his is the song of ice and fire, "there must be one more", and Rhaegar's pointed look at Dany.
Was Ashara Dayne possibly Elia's surrogate for the later children? Could she be both Aegon and Dany's mother?
If you think about it, it's the oldest story in the book....guy falls for the hot sister of his best friend or the saucy maid who works for him. Ashara is both. Plus, it's not the first time in real life or even in the story that we've seen some lovestruck chump move his side piece into a close-proximity job so they can be together (I'm eyeballing you, Tyrion) - Ashara "not long at court" indeed....I wonder who brought her there? And is it possible that she had to leave because she overstepped her bounds as a paramour, perhaps getting involved with something or drawing attention to the situation in a way that she shouldn't have?
I've got a pretty strong suspicion that Ashara had been involved in a cozy little affair with none other than Rhaegar Targaryen. Rhaegar is the man who dishonored her at Harrenhal, Rhaegar is the stupid prince whose death caused her to jump from her stupid tower, and I think Ashara somehow tricked Ned or deceived him in some way and then betrayed him in the end. I also think there's a good chance that she is Dany's mother, and perhaps also rAegon's real mother - she was a surrogate for Elia after Rhaenys.
I'll leave you with a couple of tidbits from a SSM, some comments from long-ago fan discussions:
ConJose August 2002:
Can any noble have a paramour regardless of gender, rank, or marital status? For example, an unwed young heiress having a paramour.
No comment.
Could each partner in a marriage have their own paramour?
Yes, but it would depend on the rank of the partners.
Scifi.com Chat, December 2000:
Moderator: <Linda> to <Moderator>: A couple of times in the books, the word "paramour" is used in connection with the Dornishmen (Lord Yronwood's paramour and Ellaria Sand), but no one else. Is that meant to connote customs and habits peculiar to the Dornish, or is it simply coincidence?
GRRM: Dornish customs and habits. The Rhoynar influence. A Dornishman's paramour has a certain status, below that of a wife but not insignifcant.
Anyhoo, much talk of Ashara's role during the Rebellion, and of couse much ado made of her "dishonoring" mentioned by Ser Barristan Selmy in A Dance With Dragons, The Kingbreaker:
Rhaegar had chosen Lyanna Stark of Winterfell. Barristan Selmy would have made a different choice. Not the queen, who was not present. Nor Elia of Dorne, though she was good and gentle; had she been chosen, much war and woe might have been avoided. His choice would have been a young maiden not long at court, one of Elia's companions … though compared to Ashara Dayne, the Dornish princess was a kitchen drab.
Even after all these years, Ser Barristan could still recall Ashara's smile, the sound of her laughter. He had only to close his eyes to see her, with her long dark hair tumbling about her shoulders and those haunting purple eyes. Daenerys has the same eyes. Sometimes when the queen looked at him, he felt as if he were looking at Ashara's daughter …
But Ashara's daughter had been stillborn, and his fair lady had thrown herself from a tower soon after, mad with grief for the child she had lost, and perhaps for the man who had dishonored her at Harrenhal as well. She died never knowing that Ser Barristan had loved her. How could she? He was a knight of the Kingsguard, sworn to celibacy. No good could have come from telling her his feelings. No good came from silence either. If I had unhorsed Rhaegar and crowned Ashara queen of love and beauty, might she have looked to me instead of Stark?
First, let's look at this statement.
If I had unhorsed Rhaegar and crowned Ashara queen of love and beauty, might she have looked to me instead of Stark?
Barristan wonders if Ashara would have looked to him had he won the tourney/chosen Ashara as QoLaB - implying that Ashara took note of the victor of the tournament....a victor that she later "looked to". A victor that was a Stark.
Except no male Stark was victorious at Harrenhal. Of all the Starks present, only Lyanna, recipient of the laurel of QoLaB, could be considered a winner of sorts.
Doesn't make sense, does it?
So this begs the question:
Did Ashara Dayne "look to" Lyanna Stark?
Have we been focusing in the wrong place?
Follow along with me here.
Why would Ashara "look to" the lone female wolf?
Barristan says:
Rhaegar had chosen Lyanna Stark of Winterfell. Barristan Selmy would have made a different choice. Not the queen, who was not present. Nor Elia of Dorne, though she was good and gentle; had she been chosen, much war and woe might have been avoided.
If Rhaegar as victor of the tourney had chosen his own wife instead of another woman, much war and woe might have been avoided....and Ashara might not have looked to Stark.
Why would Ashara Dayne not bat an eye had she or even Elia been crowned, but been compelled to "look to Stark" once Lyanna had received the glory?
Ashara Dayne was Rhaegar's paramour.
GRRM on Rhaegar/Elia's relationship: "It's complicated." Was Rhaegar using Ashara as bedwarmer? What if the answer is yes? And to take it further, what if she fell in love? Ashara sees Lyanna crowned at HH. Becomes jealous, targets Lyanna. Rats her out to....who? Aerys?
If Ashara was Rhaegar’s paramour, she wouldn’t have a problem with Rhaegar crowning Elia…she’s already his wife, and Ashara would be accustomed to that relationship. And, obviously, a paramour certainly wouldn't take issue should she receive the laurel herself. However, Rhaegar showing attention to a woman besides the paramour OR the wife? A woman that a paramour doesn’t know, one that might threaten her position? That’s a problem.
Even after all these years, Ser Barristan could still recall Ashara’s smile, the sound of her laughter. He had only to close his eyes to see her, with her long dark hair tumbling about her shoulders and those haunting purple eyes. Daenerys has the same eyes. Sometimes when the queen looked at him, he felt as if he were looking at Ashara’s daughter ...
But Ashara’s daughter had been stillborn, and his fair lady had thrown herself from a tower soon after, mad with grief for the child she had lost, and perhaps for the man who had dishonored her at Harrenhal as well.
But Ashara’s daughter had been stillborn, and his fair lady had thrown herself from a tower soon after, mad with grief for the child she had lost, and perhaps for the man who had dishonored her at Harrenhal as well.
Rhaegar was the winner of the Harrenhal tourney.
Rhaegar gave honors to Lyanna Stark.
Ashara Dayne was dishonored at Harrenhal.
Ashara returned to Dorne at some point between the Tourney and the end of the Rebellion.
Per Jaime, Rhaegar "returned from the south" to take control of the royal forces.
Ashara had a stillborn daughter.
Ashara Dayne committed suicide after Ned brought news to Starfall - mad with grief over her child, and the man who dishonored her at Harrenhal.
Grief, meaning over one who has died.
Rhaegar died at the Trident.
Daenerys has Ashara's eyes.
To boot, Ashara was "not long at court" at Harrenhal per Barristan, and per text and SSM Ashara returned to Starfall at some point during the war, since she was hanging out there when Ned arrived to return Dawn. Did she leave King's Landing/Dragonstone voluntarily, or was she sent away?
Excerpt from TWOIAF that may establish precedent:
"It would later be rumoured that, on the night of Jaehaerys's coronation, Aerys took the maidenhead of Lady Joanna Lannister, who had come to court for the celebrations. There are rumours that Joanna had given her maidenhead to Prince Aerys the night of Jaehaerys' coronation, and briefly became Aerys' paramour after he ascended the throne himself. Not long thereafter, Joanna was dismissed by Queen Rhaella from her service in King's Landing. While Queen Rhaella turned a blind eye towards most of her husband's infidelities, she did not approve when it concerned one of her own "ladies." (Joanna was one of many ladies to be sent away from court.) She departed for Casterly Rock at once, and seldom visited King's Landing afterwards."
Furthermore, Elia births Rhaenys, and is bedridden for 6 months after due to the difficulty. She recovers, possibly goes to Dorne (my crackpot interpretation of her KWB encounter), attends the grandest tourney of all time with no mention of pregnancy but miraculously has a new son a few months later, born on the privacy of Dragonstone. Where was Ashara during this time? Did Ashara give birth to baby Aegon? Then we have the HotU vision: Dark-haired woman nursing a babe in a huge wooden bed - his is the song of ice and fire, "there must be one more", and Rhaegar's pointed look at Dany.
Was Ashara Dayne possibly Elia's surrogate for the later children? Could she be both Aegon and Dany's mother?
If you think about it, it's the oldest story in the book....guy falls for the hot sister of his best friend or the saucy maid who works for him. Ashara is both. Plus, it's not the first time in real life or even in the story that we've seen some lovestruck chump move his side piece into a close-proximity job so they can be together (I'm eyeballing you, Tyrion) - Ashara "not long at court" indeed....I wonder who brought her there? And is it possible that she had to leave because she overstepped her bounds as a paramour, perhaps getting involved with something or drawing attention to the situation in a way that she shouldn't have?
I've got a pretty strong suspicion that Ashara had been involved in a cozy little affair with none other than Rhaegar Targaryen. Rhaegar is the man who dishonored her at Harrenhal, Rhaegar is the stupid prince whose death caused her to jump from her stupid tower, and I think Ashara somehow tricked Ned or deceived him in some way and then betrayed him in the end. I also think there's a good chance that she is Dany's mother, and perhaps also rAegon's real mother - she was a surrogate for Elia after Rhaenys.
I'll leave you with a couple of tidbits from a SSM, some comments from long-ago fan discussions:
ConJose August 2002:
Can any noble have a paramour regardless of gender, rank, or marital status? For example, an unwed young heiress having a paramour.
No comment.
Could each partner in a marriage have their own paramour?
Yes, but it would depend on the rank of the partners.
Scifi.com Chat, December 2000:
Moderator: <Linda> to <Moderator>: A couple of times in the books, the word "paramour" is used in connection with the Dornishmen (Lord Yronwood's paramour and Ellaria Sand), but no one else. Is that meant to connote customs and habits peculiar to the Dornish, or is it simply coincidence?
GRRM: Dornish customs and habits. The Rhoynar influence. A Dornishman's paramour has a certain status, below that of a wife but not insignifcant.