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Post by jnr on Mar 27, 2016 15:51:29 GMT
So the Night's King can physically touch Bran? Coming from the people who brought us CotF fireball grenades, not too surprising. Let's not forget the Night's King doesn't even exist in the books, in any sense, except a mythological reference. Just his presence alone, and everything he's done so far, is a serious distortion.
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Post by Melifeather on Mar 27, 2016 15:56:23 GMT
There has to be a way for the show to make the audience understand what Bran is doing with regards to seeing the past, present, and possible future through the weirnet. Having him stand in various places and seeing things and then perhaps showing him sitting in the roots with Bloodraven will help explain what's going on. But, wargs and skinchangers can identify other wargs and skinchangers, and having the Nights King touch Bran while time traveling is a way to show that 1) the Nights King is a warg/skinchanger, 2) that he recognizes Bran.
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Post by jnr on Mar 27, 2016 16:39:56 GMT
There has to be a way for the show to make the audience understand what Bran is doing with regards to seeing the past, present, and possible future through the weirnet It seems quite easy to me; you just do what the books do. You have Bloodraven explain weirnet visions to Bran, and you give the audience visions like Bran's. Meaning, visions that all come from one vantage point: the POV of a weirwood based on something that actually happened in front of that weirwood. This perspective can never be altered, because weirwoods can't move, and of course, Bran's own body can't be seen in any sense in the vision, because it wasn't there in real life and the weirwood never saw it. What the show guys appear to be doing is quite a different thing, more like astral projection. Bran can project his spirit wherever he wants it to go, and once there, he can do things like turn his head to see in different directions, move from point A to point B, etc. Although that may be something much simpler, like a dream instead of a weirwood vision, in which case obviously no rules would apply at all. So now the Night's King grabbing Bran would be some symbolic sort of deal, representing a future event, like Jojen dreaming of the sea coming to Winterfell and drowning Mikken in the books.
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Post by Melifeather on Mar 27, 2016 17:16:36 GMT
Movies and tv shows usually "show" more than they "tell". To explain time travel in dialog would take much longer than a visual, because a visual can communicate volumes all at once.
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Post by jnr on Mar 28, 2016 4:13:56 GMT
It's not too hard to say "Weirwoods preserve a memory of everything they've seen. By skinchanging a weirwood you can access those memories."
That's what happens in the books, and it's followed by Bran's actual visions, which are memories of just this sort.
Whatever the show is doing may or may not be that... but that is definitely not what's happening in the trailer.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Mar 28, 2016 14:34:14 GMT
So the Night's King can physically touch Bran? Coming from the people who brought us CotF fireball grenades, not too surprising. Let's not forget the Night's King doesn't even exist in the books, in any sense, except a mythological reference. Just his presence alone, and everything he's done so far, is a serious distortion. This is true. We don't have any sort of single entity in charge of or heading the cold lot. I guess what I'm actually asking with my question is, can the forces of Cold and the Others be dealt with on a physical level? I don't mean with fire or obsidian. In other words, is there a General or King or some sort of being at the head of this that can be teated with either on the physical and or psychic level? Because so far, we've seen no evidence of this at all. We've a half a dozen Others and lot of wights acting in consort, but not a leader per se, let alone one that can be parleyed with.
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Post by jnr on Mar 29, 2016 2:18:48 GMT
Because so far, we've seen no evidence of this at all. We've a half a dozen Others and lot of wights acting in consort, but not a leader per se, let alone one that can be parleyed with. Absolutely. The show is totally going off the rails in this area, as so many others pertaining to Others, like • Jon spotting an Other taking a baby at Craster's • Craster having an extra baby • The extra baby being dumped in the woods by a NW (Rast) and picked up by a Popsicle • The extra baby being taken to the Heart of Winter, surviving ultra-harsh conditions against all odds • The Night's King having a Popsicle entourage • The Night's King transforming the baby into a Popsicle by brushing it with a fingernail • Popsicles making a "thud" sound when they jump down • Popsicles leaving tracks in snow • Popsicles wearing non-ice armor • Longclaw being able to destroy a Popsicle • Popsicles shattering when stabbed with obsidian, not melting ...not one of which is in the canon either. D&D are really just not doing the same thing GRRM is, at a basic level, in this whole area. Haven't been since season two.
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Post by Melifeather on Mar 29, 2016 21:55:58 GMT
Emilia Clarke says GOT is not sexist: link
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Post by jnr on Mar 29, 2016 23:56:38 GMT
In this fictional world, really? I haven't seen any...
The closest approximation of even a competent female leader/ruler IMO would be Olenna Tyrell, or perhaps Asha (though that seems a stretch).
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Post by eiraseren on Mar 30, 2016 5:43:12 GMT
In this fictional world, really? I haven't seen any... The closest approximation of even a competent female leader/ruler IMO would be Olenna Tyrell, or perhaps Asha (though that seems a stretch). Perhaps "unstoppable" was considered the more important measure in that statement? Otherwise I don't think Yarfa would make the list. Running from a shirtless wanker and dogs does not qualify as unstoppable.
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Post by eiraseren on Mar 30, 2016 5:47:53 GMT
But, wargs and skinchangers can identify other wargs and skinchangers, and having the Nights King touch Bran while time traveling is a way to show that 1) the Nights King is a warg/skinchanger, 2) that he recognizes Bran. That's interesting. Not something I'd really considered about this Nightsicle guy. I mean, what's he doing then? Skinchanging ice?
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Post by Melifeather on Mar 30, 2016 12:54:08 GMT
But, wargs and skinchangers can identify other wargs and skinchangers, and having the Nights King touch Bran while time traveling is a way to show that 1) the Nights King is a warg/skinchanger, 2) that he recognizes Bran. That's interesting. Not something I'd really considered about this Nightsicle guy. I mean, what's he doing then? Skinchanging ice? Maybe it's too complicated, but I was thinking that the white walkers were human skinchangers and that they used Craster's infant sons to draw out their lifeforce to create the icy white shadow. They should be similar to the shadows Melisandre draws from Stannis, but since they're the ice side their forms are preserved. The white walkers are described as wearing camouflage armor.
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Post by jnr on Mar 30, 2016 15:59:13 GMT
Perhaps "unstoppable" was considered the more important measure in that statement? I just don't think Clarke knows what she's talking about -- typical for acting talent when discussing writing topics. GRRM and the show are both unapologetic about making this a blatantly sexist man's world (because Europe in the Middle Ages was as well, even though GRRM and D&D introduced all these other huge changes compared to Europe... but never mind).
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Post by Melifeather on Mar 30, 2016 16:21:32 GMT
It is blatantly sexist, but so is the real world. I deal with a patriarchal system on a daily basis. It isn't fair, but it is what it is, and while there are many women who just accept it and go with it, there are those that fight the system and try to buck it, and there are those that try their best to navigate it. The wheel of time in Westeros has many instances where women are passed over as heirs, and characters like Cersei, Arianne, and Asha fight for their places, but they've got an uphill battle. Asha gets passed over in the kingsmoot, we don't know Arianne's fate yet, and Cersei tries many avenues to work around it and has gotten pretty ruthless in her pursuits, because it's basically the only way a female can manuever their way into power. There was no legitimate way for Cersei to become her father's heir, nor retain the throne after Robert's death, so she sought ways to rule through her children. Dany was doing things right politically until she grew unsatisfied with compromise and desired the Targaryen way of using brute force to take what she wanted.
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Post by jnr on Mar 31, 2016 2:09:35 GMT
...and therefore, anybody who claims the show isn't sexist doesn't know what she's talking about.
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