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Post by Weasel Pie on Mar 17, 2016 21:23:47 GMT
Have you come across something that may have inspired GRRM's Song of Ice and Fire? From Tolkien to Marvel, from Norse Mythology to the War of the Roses, George RR Martin has made it clear that he has a great love for history, mythology and literature. George visited Hadrian's Wall in 1981 during a visit. Martin said in a Rolling Stone interview: “The Wall predates anything else. I can trace back the inspiration for that to 1981. I was in England visiting a friend, and as we approached the border of England and Scotland, we stopped to see Hadrian’s Wall. I stood up there and I tried to imagine what it was like to be a Roman legionary, standing on this wall, looking at these distant hills. It was a very profound feeling. For the Romans at that time, this was the end of civilization; it was the end of the world. We know that there were Scots beyond the hills, but they didn’t know that. It could have been any kind of monster. It was the sense of this barrier against dark forces – it planted something in me. But when you write fantasy, everything is bigger and more colorful, so I took the Wall and made it three times as long and 700 feet high, and made it out of ice.” And it so happens that I was doing a little digging (because of our very own Some Pig No Doubt 's Marvel-ous board) to read up on Heimdall and his relationship to Odin et al, and I see that Heimdall is very closely associated with a horn. Which made me think of snowfyre 's thread about the Horn of Joruman. So here are a couple of very cool things that I found. The Gosford Cross: a tenth century carved stone cross depicting Christian symbols as well as representations of characters from Norse Mythology, notably our favorites from the Poetic Edda, including Thor, Loki and Heimdall. The location is not terribly far south from where Hadrian's Wall starts on the West Coast.Here's Víðarr's battle with Fenrir at Ragnarök: This shows Thor going fishing Here is Loki bound in "underworld" chains being attended by "Sigyn", his loyal wife and Goddess of the Aesir And here is the subject of my search, Heimdallr (Heimdall) - with his hornSo, a little more digging. Heimdallr blows into Gjallarhorn in an 1895 illustration
"The single mention of Gjallarhorn by name occurs in the Poetic Edda poem Völuspá, wherein a völva foresees the events of Ragnarök and the role in which Heimdallr and Gjallarhorn will play at its onset; Heimdallr will raise his horn and blow loudly." "In the Prose Edda, Gjallarhorn is mentioned thrice, and all three mentions occur in Gylfaginning. In chapter 14, the enthroned figure Just-As-High tells the disguised Gangleri about the cosmological tree Yggdrasil. Just-As-High says that one of the three roots of Yggdrasil reaches to the well Mímisbrunnr, which belongs to Mímir, and contains much wisdom and intelligence. Using Gjallarhorn, Heimdallr drinks from the well and thus is himself wise.[10] In chapter 25 of Gylfaginning, High tells Gangleri about Heimdallr. High mentions that Heimdallr is the owner of the "trumpet" (see footnote) Gjallarhorn and that "its blast can be heard in all worlds".[11] In chapter 51, High foretells the events of Ragnarök. After the enemies of the gods will gather at the plain Vígríðr, Heimdallr will stand and mightily blow into Gjallarhorn. The gods will awake and assemble together at the thing" So, pretty cool eh? I'm speculating that he visited the area where the Viking Cross is. Tying in Norse Mythology (through the lens of Marvel of course) and a visit to Hadrian's Wall? Not a bad day sightseeing for George. Notes: Yggdrasil is often cited as the inspiration for Bloodraven's Tree. BR's cave also contains an underground river. I've speculated that this river connects to a vast underground network and can ultimately end up at the black pool beneath the heart tree in Winterfell.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Apr 11, 2016 22:21:49 GMT
Frederick I, also known as Frederick Barbarossa, was the Holy Roman Emperor from 1155 until his death.
"Frederick is the subject of many legends, including that of a sleeping hero, like the much older British Celtic legends of Arthur or Bran the Blessed. Legend says he is not dead, but asleep with his knights in a cave in the Kyffhäuser mountain in Thuringia or Mount Untersberg in Bavaria, Germany, and that when the ravens cease to fly around the mountain he will awake and restore Germany to its ancient greatness. According to the story, his red beard has grown through the table at which he sits. His eyes are half closed in sleep, but now and then he raises his hand and sends a boy out to see if the ravens have stopped flying."
Sounds a bit familiar! In particular, the part about actually growing into his surroundings is very Bloodraven.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Apr 15, 2016 11:16:56 GMT
Here's a weird fact about one of Tyrion's favorite foods.
The male sea lamprey is not a romantic: To propagate, he attaches to a female that swims by, and then wraps himself around her to squeeze the eggs out of her body. Subsequently, he fertilizes the eggs, after which both parents die.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Apr 15, 2016 17:37:25 GMT
There's another homage I've found that has to do with Cersei's walk of atonement. Almost every thing I've read online about this event has been tied to Elizabeth 'Jane' Shore, the mistress of the Edward IV. However, I don't think this was Martin's influence here. I think he is paying a homage to Shakespeare's Henry VI, Part II. In this play we see the punishment of Eleanor, Duchess of Gloucester. She is charged with trying to assassinate the king, Henry VI, by witchcraft. Her co-conspirators were both charged and killed for their crimes, but Eleanor was a duchess and as such couldn't be killed outright. So instead she was made to pay penance by walking through the streets of London, bare foot and nude, until someone gives her a sheet to wrap herself in. Interestingly, Eleanor was a Lancastrian, and had two sons. Her husband was Humfrey, Duke of Gloucester who was Lord Protector of the Realm. He was, at the time of Eleanor's walk, the heir presumptive to the throne, being the youngest son of Henry IV. His older brother Henry V died without issue, and Margaret of Anjou (Henry VI's queen) had not yet given birth to her son at the time; not to mention many believed the child she carried was a bastard. In any case, I think Martin is referring to the Shakespeare play because of the emphasis he puts on what happens to Cersei's feet. From A Dance with Dragons:- And now Henry VI, Part II:-
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Apr 16, 2016 18:37:11 GMT
I will eventually work this into a massive crackpot I'm firing, but will start here by saying that Mad Danelle Lothston is based off Elizabeth Bathory. (Wikipedia) A countess and serial killer from the Báthory family of nobility in the Kingdom of Hungary. She has been labelled by Guinness World Records as the most prolific female murderer, though the precise number of her victims is debated. Báthory and four collaborators were accused of torturing and killing hundreds of young women between 1585 and 1610. The highest number of victims cited during Báthory's trial was 650. Despite the evidence against Elizabeth, her family's influence kept her from facing trial. She was imprisoned in December 1610 within Csejte Castle, Upper Hungary, now in Slovakia, where she remained imprisoned in a set of rooms until her death four years later. The stories of her serial murders and brutality are verified by the testimony of more than 300 witnesses and survivors as well as physical evidence and the presence of horribly mutilated dead, dying and imprisoned girls found at the time of her arrest. Stories which ascribe to her vampire-like tendencies (most famously the tale that she bathed in the blood of virgins to retain her youth) were generally recorded years after her death and are considered unreliable. Her story quickly became part of national folklore, and her infamy persists to this day. She is often compared with Vlad III the Impaler of Wallachia, on whom the fictional Count Dracula is partly based, and has been nicknamed The Blood Countess and Countess Dracula. According to all testimony, Báthory's initial victims were the adolescent daughters of local peasants, many of whom were lured to Csejte by offers of well-paid work as maidservants in the castle. Later, she is said to have begun to kill daughters of the lesser gentry, who were sent to her gynaeceum by their parents to learn courtly etiquette. Abductions were said to have occurred as well. The atrocities described most consistently included severe beatings, burning or mutilation of hands, biting the flesh off the faces, arms and other body parts, freezing or starving to death. The use of needles was also mentioned by the collaborators in court. Some witnesses named relatives who died while at the gynaeceum. Others reported having seen traces of torture on dead bodies, some of which were buried in graveyards, and others in unmarked locations. However, two witnesses (court officials Benedikt Deseo and Jakob Szilvassy) actually saw the Countess herself torture and kill young servant girls. According to the testimony of the defendants, Elizabeth Báthory tortured and killed her victims not only at Csejte but also on her properties in Sárvár, Németkeresztúr, Pozsony (today Bratislava), and Vienna, and elsewhere. In addition to the defendants, several people were named for supplying Elizabeth Báthory with young women, procured either by deception or by force. Although it is commonly believed that Báthory was caught in the act of torture, there is little evidence to support this. Initially, Thurzó made the declaration to Báthory's guests and village people that he had caught her red-handed. However, she was arrested and detained prior to the discovery or presentation of the victims. It seems most likely that the whole idea of Thurzó discovering Báthory covered in blood has been the embellishment of fictionalized accounts. Thurzó debated further proceedings with Elizabeth's son Paul and two of her sons-in-law. A trial and execution would have caused a public scandal and disgraced a noble and influential family (which at the time ruled Transylvania), and Elizabeth's considerable property would have been seized by the crown. Thurzó, along with Paul and her two sons-in-law, originally planned for Elizabeth to be spirited away to a nunnery, but as accounts of her murder of the daughters of lesser nobility spread, it was agreed that Elizabeth Báthory should be kept under strict house arrest and that further punishment should be avoided. The exact number of Elizabeth Báthory's victims is unknown, and even contemporary estimates differed greatly. During the trial, Szentes and Ficko reported 36 and 37 victims respectively, during their periods of service. The other defendants estimated a number of 50 or higher. Many Sárvár castle personnel estimated the number of bodies removed from the castle at between 100 and 200. One witness, a woman named Susannah, who spoke at the trial mentioned a book in which Báthory supposedly kept a list of a total of over 650 victims, and this number has passed into legend. As the number of 650 could not be proven, the official count remained at 80. Reportedly, the location of the diaries is unknown but 32 letters written by Báthory are stored in the Hungarian state archives in Budapest. The case of Elizabeth Báthory inspired numerous stories during the 18th and 19th centuries. The most common motif of these works was that of the countess bathing in her victims' blood to retain beauty or youth. This legend appeared in print for the first time in 1729, in the Jesuit scholar László Turóczi’s Tragica Historia, the first written account of the Báthory case. The story came into question in 1817, when the witness accounts (which had surfaced in 1765) were published for the first time. They included no references to blood baths. In his book Hungary and Transylvania, published in 1850, John Paget describes the supposed origins of Báthory's blood-bathing, although his tale seems to be a fictionalized recitation of oral history from the area. It is difficult to know how accurate his account of events are. Sadistic pleasure is considered a far more plausible motive for Elizabeth Báthory's crimes. ETA: Note the hair color. Recall that Mad Danelle had long red hair. Plus the whole bathing in blood and feasting on human flesh thing.
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Post by Weasel Pie on May 2, 2016 22:06:41 GMT
Something I noticed in passing when reading about the Seven Wonders of the World.
The Ancient Wonders and their ASOIAF counterparts:
The Great Pyramid of Giza from 2584-2561 BC in Egypt. > Meereen The Hanging Gardens of Babylon from around 600 BC in Iraq. > Highgarden The statue of Zeus at Olympia from 466-456 BC (Temple) 435 BC (Statue) in Greece. > Statue of Baelor on Visenya's Hill The Temple of Artemis at Ephesus circa 550 BC in Turkey. > I don't know! The Mausoleum of Halicarnassus 351 BC (to which the modern AASR SJ HQ is modeled after) in Carians, Persians, Greeks > HoBaW? Crypts of Winterfell? The Colossus of Rhodes from 292-280 BC in Greece. > Titan of Braavos The Lighthouse of Alexandria circa 280 BC in Hellenistic Egypt, Greece. > the High Tower
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 16, 2016 16:20:57 GMT
Just a quick tidbit I picked up over the weekend while watching a documentary on Henry VIII and Ann Boleyn. I think it was min that was asking about the significance of the Arryn's sigil. Well it turns out, the falcon was the symbol of Ann Boleyn. A women who soared so high, she fell. Thanks to her, we the Brits, are now a Protestant nation. Had this little falcon not come along, we'd still be Catholics. And according to this docu, she was indeed an honourable woman, in the years before they finally married, apparently she remained chaste and only gave it up when their engagement was made official. Quite a feat to keep the lothario at arms length for years.
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Post by min on May 16, 2016 16:40:50 GMT
Just a quick tidbit I picked up over the weekend while watching a documentary on Henry VIII and Ann Boleyn. I think it was min that was asking about the significance of the Arryn's sigil. Well it turns out, the falcon was the symbol of Ann Boleyn. A women who soared so high, she fell. Thanks to her, we the Brits, are now a Protestant nation. Had this little falcon not come along, we'd still be Catholics. And according to this docu, she was indeed an honourable woman, in the years before they finally married, apparently she remained chaste and only gave it up when their engagement was made official. Quite a feat to keep the lothario at arms length for years. That's really interesting. Henry VIII has always reminded me a little bit of Robert! It's interesting that history paints her as a harlot; but that's Henry talking. Same with Marie Antionette. She never said "let them eat cake".
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Post by Melifeather on May 16, 2016 16:52:39 GMT
Just a quick tidbit I picked up over the weekend while watching a documentary on Henry VIII and Ann Boleyn. I think it was min that was asking about the significance of the Arryn's sigil. Well it turns out, the falcon was the symbol of Ann Boleyn. A women who soared so high, she fell. Thanks to her, we the Brits, are now a Protestant nation. Had this little falcon not come along, we'd still be Catholics. And according to this docu, she was indeed an honourable woman, in the years before they finally married, apparently she remained chaste and only gave it up when their engagement was made official. Quite a feat to keep the lothario at arms length for years. That was smart, at least at the time, for her part to not give him what he wanted, before he gave her what she wanted.
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 16, 2016 17:50:13 GMT
It's interesting that history paints her as a harlot; but that's Henry talking. The documentary said something about this as well. Henry took a bad fall around the time Ann was pregnant for the second time, after having given birth the Elizabeth I, and he remained unconscious for more than 3 hours. Apparently a fall like that can alter a personality. His injury and Ann's worry over his life and health was said to be the cause of her miscarriage, which of course, was the boy he wanted. It seems he never forgave her for loosing the boy and with his new personality, he was harsher and angrier all the time. From this new and worsened king is where we get a lot of the bad propaganda of her. Also the Catholics at the time, who were still the majority of the kingdom, saw her as a concubine, not a real wife, so they blackened her name as much as possible as well. And Henry let them because he'd already moved on to Jane Seymour.
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Post by min on May 16, 2016 18:02:04 GMT
It's interesting that history paints her as a harlot; but that's Henry talking. The documentary said something about this as well. Henry took a bad fall around the time Ann was pregnant for the second time, after having given birth the Elizabeth I, and he remained unconscious for more than 3 hours. Apparently a fall like that can alter a personality. His injury and Ann's worry over his life and health was said to be the cause of her miscarriage, which of course, was the boy he wanted. It seems he never forgave her for loosing the boy and with his new personality, he was harsher and angrier all the time. From this new and worsened king is where we get a lot of the bad propaganda of her. Also the Catholics at the time, who were still the majority of the kingdom, saw her as a concubine, not a real wife, so they blackened her name as much as possible as well. And Henry let them because he'd already moved on to Jane Seymour. The Seymouyrs of Wolf Hall!
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Post by Weasel Pie on Jul 27, 2017 15:04:22 GMT
Found in passing - pasted from wiki to make it easier. No doubt GRRM came across this.
"The Ravens of the Tower of London are a group of at least six captive ravens which live at the Tower of London.[2] Their presence is traditionally believed to protect the Crown and the tower; a superstition holds that "if the Tower of London ravens are lost or fly away, the Crown will fall and Britain with it".
"One of the earliest legends that connects the Tower with a raven is the tale of the euhemerised mutually destructive battle against the Irish leader Matholwch who had mistreated the British princess Branwen. Branwen's brother Brân the Blessed (King of the Britons) ordered his followers to cut off his head and bury it beneath the White Hill (where the Tower now stands) facing out towards France as a talisman to protect Britain from foreign invasion."
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zena
Black Iron
Posts: 15
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Post by zena on Jul 29, 2019 0:05:42 GMT
Something I noticed in passing when reading about the Seven Wonders of the World. The Ancient Wonders and their ASOIAF counterparts: The Great Pyramid of Giza from 2584-2561 BC in Egypt. > MeereenThe Hanging Gardens of Babylon from around 600 BC in Iraq. > HighgardenThe statue of Zeus at Olympia from 466-456 BC (Temple) 435 BC (Statue) in Greece. > Statue of Baelor on Visenya's HillThe Temple of Artemis at Ephesus circa 550 BC in Turkey. > I don't know! The Mausoleum of Halicarnassus 351 BC (to which the modern AASR SJ HQ is modeled after) in Carians, Persians, Greeks > HoBaW? Crypts of Winterfell?The Colossus of Rhodes from 292-280 BC in Greece. > Titan of BraavosThe Lighthouse of Alexandria circa 280 BC in Hellenistic Egypt, Greece. > the High TowerArtemis Temple = HotU in Qarth maybe? Or Unsullied with Lady of Spears?
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