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Post by Ser Duncan on Apr 25, 2016 12:57:33 GMT
Although Maggie tells Cersei that their shrouds and crowns will be gold; it doesn't necessarily mean that they will have an untimely death. Yes and no. If the prophecy is true, then Dorne is rather important to the overall story because in order for 'Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds', it means Myrcella will be queen. So the plot to crown her may still be in play, or fAegon is going to marry her and make her his queen. Either way, Cersei will outlive them all because the rest of the prophesy says she'll die while still grieving for her children, that's when the valonqar will choke her to death. The implication being both Tommen and Myrcella's death will happen relatively close together.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Apr 25, 2016 13:03:16 GMT
Did Varamyr notice what happened to his body? I don't recall Varamyr paying much attention to his body after it died. Nope, his body, as far as we know is were he left it. It was not wighted either because he sees Thistle while in One-Eye, but not his own body. If Thistle was wighted, then you would think Varamyr's body should've risen and been with the same group too, but we no indication of it.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Apr 25, 2016 13:10:46 GMT
Something major just occurred to me, wondering along the lines of "how can obliterating House Martell serve the endgame of the show writers?" and I had forgotten my own damned theory. I was thinking on this too, because I'm quite perturbed they did that. The only thing I can come up with is, there is no fAegon on the show, so there is no longer any role for the Martells to play. Based on the Winds chapters of Arianne, she's going to meet him, if he's not in the show and she's not in the show, then what other role does the house serve, other than to have the Sand Snakes in King's Landing. And since they obviously are there now, job done.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Apr 25, 2016 13:17:36 GMT
Something major just occurred to me, wondering along the lines of "how can obliterating House Martell serve the endgame of the show writers?" and I had forgotten my own damned theory. I was thinking on this too, because I'm quite perturbed they did that. The only thing I can come up with is, there is no fAegon on the show, so there is no longer any role for the Martells to play. Based on the Winds chapters of Arianne, she's going to meet him, if he's not in the show and she's not in the show, then what other role does the house serve, other than to have the Sand Snakes in King's Landing. And since they obviously are there now, job done. The other possibilities are a sudden inclusion of Darkstar, or a reveal that Arthur Dayne had a kid. They aren't Martells, I know, but they're certainly the second most important noble house in Dorne. With the Martells gone...?
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Apr 25, 2016 15:12:38 GMT
My thoughts re: book outcomes: 1) Show!Myrcella dying at the hands of the Sand Snakes (I'm counting Faullaria as a Snake) makes me think that Book!Myrcella may have in fact died as a result of Darkstar's attack - we just don't know it yet. The concept is the same - a plot for revenge against the Lannisters as justice for Dorne, going against Doran Martell and his background machinations that the plotters assume mean weakness. In show world, this plot directly instigates Myrcella's death; in book world, Myrcella's death is an unfortunate byproduct. Either way, it pits Lannister against Martell. 2) Doran Martell is going to bite it at the hands of someone close to him. Not sure if this will be Arianne, as they seemed to have kissed and made up after Arianne's failed Queenmaker plot. However, Faullaria is the show version of Arianne, so if Book!Arianne is indeed the perpetrator, IMO the only logical reason would be that Doran makes Trystane his heir after Quentyn's death, with Arianne's "legacy" being that she gets to marry fAegon and basically leave Dorne, which is not something she wants to do. The other option I can see for a Doran Martell assassin is his own wife - Mellario hears of Quentyn's death, blames Doran for the folly of the mission in the first place, and comes back to kill him. Double points if Trystane also dies as a result of Doran's scheming, and she has now lost both her sons. Triple points if she commands Areo to do the deed with his axe - he is Mellario's man, after all. 3) Melisandre being an old hag without the glamor isn't a surprise...I mean, the books hinted at that pretty hard. (I am ignoring D&D's complete idiocy re: continuity with the necklace.) I agree with the "crisis of faith" assessment, although I believe she'll recover and come back with a somewhat changed worldview. I say this only because I'm expecting a pretty solid teamup with Bran/Jon, Mel, and Val at some point down the road, all fighting on the same side...whatever that is. 4) Show!Daario just annoys the shit out of me. I'm not sure if D&D could screw up this character any more, really. I think Daario and Jaime rank as the top two worst character interpretation ever. 5) Ghost howls....more continuity error. 6) Dany - yawn. I'm ready to see Drogon come smoke the Dothraki. Tyrion/Varys - yawn. I personally hate the way D&D does these little 5 minute teaser blurbs for major characters - it just ruins the flow for me. You don't get enough data to be really intrigued by anything. More later.
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Post by Melifeather on Apr 25, 2016 15:21:50 GMT
Guarding Jon's body is a little odd. Why hasn't Jon turned wightified by now? He is very, very dead. Did Varamyr notice what happened to his body? I thought of it more like they wanted to organize against the mutiny more than guarding his dead body? But Davos also mentioned to the "resistance" that he believes Melisandre can do something. So Davos is expecting Melisandre to help somehow. Seems to me that the show writers have made of point of eliminating the possibility of Mel resurrecting Jon. Which leaves my much more preferred method, that Bran is involved somehow, or Jon is "Coldhanded" or "Othered" instead. I'd like to see Bran do something too, but it seems Davos believes Mel can do it. House Martell isn't obliterated because Samwell Tarly is alive and well and heading home to Horn Hill where, I've predicted, he's gonna learn he was "adopted." I thought your theory was Sam as Aegon? Greyjoys have no sun symbolism to them. I agree with you though that they are the new Targs. According to the books, the Greyjoys should be rising, but I agree the show has to symbolically find a way show this. I thought I remember reading they casted a Euron?
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Post by Ser Duncan on Apr 25, 2016 15:42:47 GMT
I thought your theory was Sam as Aegon? Right, so he's Elia's kid, the only survivor and a legitimate Martell. According to the books, the Greyjoys should be rising, but I agree the show has to symbolically find a way show this. I thought I remember reading they casted a Euron? Yes they did cast Euron. We see him getting 'drowned' in the season preview. I know it looks like it's Theon getting his head dunked, but it's actually Euron.
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Post by Melifeather on Apr 25, 2016 16:17:07 GMT
If we see something on the show that demonstrates/symbolizes the "sun rising" in the west I am going to claim that as evidence that my theory is being confirmed!
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Post by min on Apr 25, 2016 18:31:45 GMT
4) Show!Daario just annoys the shit out of me. I'm not sure if D&D could screw up this character any more, really. I think Daario and Jaime rank as the top two worst character interpretation ever. Oh god - Daario to Jorah - "You're a romantic." - LAME-O - I could do without that whole conversation. Also: "I want to see what the world is like when she's done with it." It's so lame, it makes me laugh with slight embarrassment.
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Post by Maester Flagons on Apr 26, 2016 2:26:00 GMT
4) Show!Daario just annoys the shit out of me. I'm not sure if D&D could screw up this character any more, really. I think Daario and Jaime rank as the top two worst character interpretation ever. Oh god - Daario to Jorah - "You're a romantic." - LAME-O - I could do without that whole conversation. Also: "I want to see what the world is like when she's done with it." It's so lame, it makes me laugh with slight embarrassment. Yeah. That scene was covered in Velveeta. And what's up with Arya, as the blind girl, taking a beating in the street? I'm sure they are going somewhere with that, but still! In the streets!
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Post by Maester Flagons on Apr 26, 2016 2:36:52 GMT
Back to Melisandre. With Davos wanting her help, I am wondering if someone will blunder in to her room while she is not glamoured. Wouldn't that be a shock. I'm also contemplating if it is her lifeforce that is in the ruby. Kinda like a direwolf or a weirwood, but the ruby is holding the spirit to the original body. Or like the Faceless where the appearance of the original owner of the face is used, and the memories are kept in tact. "Melanie, lot seven." Hello.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Apr 26, 2016 9:36:53 GMT
On a rewatch last night I can say with 99% confidence... that was not Ghost howling. They show him scratching and snarling, but never howling. In fact, the howl echoes while he's locked in the shed.
Has to be Summer, alerting Bran possibly.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Apr 26, 2016 14:14:39 GMT
Why did Davos do a double take on the snow after lifting Jon's body? I actually paused play on that, and I can't see a thing there to look suspicious, other than the fact there doesn't seem to be enough blood.
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Post by freyfamilyreunion on Apr 26, 2016 14:17:56 GMT
Something major just occurred to me, wondering along the lines of "how can obliterating House Martell serve the endgame of the show writers?" and I had forgotten my own damned theory. I was thinking on this too, because I'm quite perturbed they did that. The only thing I can come up with is, there is no fAegon on the show, so there is no longer any role for the Martells to play. Based on the Winds chapters of Arianne, she's going to meet him, if he's not in the show and she's not in the show, then what other role does the house serve, other than to have the Sand Snakes in King's Landing. And since they obviously are there now, job done. My guess in the books is that the Martells are probably already playing a big part in the revenge against the Lannisters and the Tyrells and are probably the ones behind the new High Septon. So I guess the show either disproves that, or this is one of the changes the show has made to the books. As for Dorne going forward in the show, I guess Oberyn's paramour may try to seize control of Dorne, if so, she may take over Doran's book parts, and one of the Sand Snakes may take over for Arianne.
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Post by freyfamilyreunion on Apr 26, 2016 14:19:06 GMT
Why did Davos do a double take on the snow after lifting Jon's body? I actually paused play on that, and I can't see a thing there to look suspicious, other than the fact there doesn't seem to be enough blood. I thought the blood smear looked vaguely like a dragon, but perhaps that's just years of R + L conditioning that is making me see things in the Snow that aren't there.
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