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Post by Weasel Pie on May 18, 2016 18:18:29 GMT
Mance Rayder aka Mansion (Castle) Raider aka Abel? Gods, if we could flesh this out and merge it with Mance = Rhaegar = UnRhaegar Dragon at TOJ, my life would be complete. Also, in reading some threads over at the W, I noticed that nanother posted the following quote, which brought on some foreshadowgasming. I mean, really? How much more irony can I take here? whoa at that catch! nice one, nanother hahaa And I don't think there can be any doubt at all now that Mance is much more than former wildling boy. His son Aemon Steelsong would be a true Targ, and it would be a damn good thing he's away from the Wall. And don't forget about the Monster (switched baby/product of incest or unsavory union) at the Wall. Whoa. A reminder that Mance has already been glamoured once that we know about. Another reminder that even though Mance is known since he was a boy, we know faces can live on after someone dies, and can be used as a disguise. Not reminding you personally, just in general lol
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Post by Weasel Pie on May 18, 2016 18:22:39 GMT
I made another catch min but I don't know where to put it! Feel free to add this to where we discussed Dany and the black sky. Bran's Cave Chapter And check this out It's the underground caverns and vast underground seas that I've been whining about for years. Damnit.
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Post by Melifeather on May 18, 2016 18:23:10 GMT
I would love for Mance to be Rhaegar. I really do. It's an older theory of mine that I abandoned, but it's a beloved memory that's nice to think about...BUT...the wheel of time HAS to have a STORM LORD taking a maiden. That is the origin story with Durran Godsgrief and Elenei.
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Post by Weasel Pie on May 18, 2016 18:25:08 GMT
I would love for Mance to be Rhaegar. I really do. It's an older theory of mine that I abandoned, but it's a beloved memory that's nice to think about...BUT...the wheel of time HAS to have a STORM LORD taking a maiden. That is the origin story with Durran Godsgrief and Elenei. why not both? We already know there are more than one inversion. More than one baby swap. More than one maiden, more than one tower. Flip North and South. Something in the inversions has to end up beyond the wall.
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Post by Melifeather on May 18, 2016 18:27:58 GMT
Sorry to be so insistent...I'll probably be forced to eat my words. The north was flipped upside down...as far as I can tell it didn't become south.
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Post by Weasel Pie on May 18, 2016 18:30:51 GMT
Sorry to be so insistent...I'll probably be forced to eat my words. The north was flipped upside down...as far as I can tell it didn't become south. Just hold tight, you may yet identify the Mance. In fact, I promise that you will. We've actually already identified it by tying in Bael/Tower and Baelish/Inverted Tower. Now we have Abel to complete the set.
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Post by Melifeather on May 18, 2016 18:36:57 GMT
If it's any consolation the Targaryens are at the Wall physically. Aemon lived there until he left to go to Oldtown, and Bloodraven is beyond the Wall in a cave. If Mance is Rhaegar he's King Beyond the Wall. Maybe he was resurrected in the tower of joy and he's undead like Jon is? Now that I've calmed down...I can see how this would work. I'm not giving up on Robert taking Lyanna though. I know I'm right on this! Rhaegar never took her. He had Ashara.
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Post by min on May 18, 2016 19:42:20 GMT
I think you should include it in the Eating the Dragon's Tail under Cycles of Time. With everyone's blessing, I would like to copy some of this into that essay. Thanks!Actually, Weasel Pie I was thinking this is Bran the Timelord's doing...although, when he was broken and unconscious and saw the storm brewing, was this his own creation or Bloodravens? Because if Bran reversed the wheel of time by opening the hinge, then basically that means it's Bran's fault that Robert betrayed the Starks by kidnapping Lyanna, causing both a moon/ice and sun/fire maiden to be killed. If he hadn't broke the wheel, Ashara would have been the only maiden killed as that was her destiny. The repeats are weird though...the saving of the maidens, like Jon with Ygritte and Littlefinger with Sansa. Yes, I think so. Better to keep all the stuff that pops up in various places in one place for cohesion. Otherwise you have to link here and there for continuity and the whole thing becomes difficult to follow. I am still confused by some stuff.... Mansion Abel = mentionable? LOL If you are coming to the party late; catchup is a bitch. Nothing wrong with the brainstorming wherever it takes you. It's fun when everyone is sparking off everyone else. I'm inclined to want to collect it from various threads and put it in one spot. I think it goes in your Dragon Tail super thread somewhere. If not in MMD/Inversion. I have more to say about Melisandre and Arya but I don't want to derail the current discussion until it runs it's course.
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Post by Melifeather on May 18, 2016 19:51:07 GMT
I think we should keep brainstorming here. I'm just going to assemble some of the awesome ideas and insert some of it in my Dragon's Tale essay. Especially the part about it going in reverse. It seems so obvious now.
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Post by Weasel Pie on May 18, 2016 19:54:42 GMT
I *think* this thread is about getting Eureka moments from clues from the show. Makes it perfect for brainstorming. Anything can be added to other threads/theories.
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Post by min on May 18, 2016 20:41:09 GMT
I *think* this thread is about getting Eureka moments from clues from the show. Makes it perfect for brainstorming. Anything can be added to other threads/theories.
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Post by Weasel Pie on May 18, 2016 22:08:49 GMT
The more I think about all this, the more I believe RLD
In all seriousness. We've got the failed birthing of Dragons at Summerhall, yes? On the day of Rhaegar's birth. If the ToJ was another birthing of dragons, and we need to parallel that with Drogo's pyre/sacrifice of a baby in order to birth dragons... then Rhaegar tried the blood sacrifice at the ToJ to birth dragons, he would need a "dead" lover and a baby. But Dany lived - born of a dead Lyanna.
I can and have written loads about RLD, but even the show wants the unsullied to see the parallel between Dany and Lyanna. Our first glimpse of Lyanna and she's on a horse. And Dany gets the blue rose in the show.
And the show pushed those strange Rhaegar discussions with Dany last season.
Not saying I'm not on board with the Rhaegar rebirth - but Dany is the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna. I'm almost certain.
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Post by min on May 18, 2016 23:41:12 GMT
The more I think about all this, the more I believe RLDIn all seriousness. We've got the failed birthing of Dragons at Summerhall, yes? On the day of Rhaegar's birth. If the ToJ was another birthing of dragons, and we need to parallel that with Drogo's pyre/sacrifice of a baby in order to birth dragons... then Rhaegar tried the blood sacrifice at the ToJ to birth dragons, he would need a "dead" lover and a baby. But Dany lived - born of a dead Lyanna. I can and have written loads about RLD, but even the show wants the unsullied to see the parallel between Dany and Lyanna. Our first glimpse of Lyanna and she's on a horse. And Dany gets the blue rose in the show. And the show pushed those strange Rhaegar discussions with Dany last season. Not saying I'm not on board with the Rhaegar rebirth - but Dany is the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna. I'm almost certain. That would explain why she is given a choice between the cup of ice and cup of fire in the HoU.
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Post by min on May 18, 2016 23:54:57 GMT
ETA: It's like saying flat out that she is the product of both bloodlines, fire and ice. She is the sun maid, the moon of Drogo's life and the horse goddess,
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 19, 2016 0:41:21 GMT
I'm on board with RLD, it would explain Ned's freaking out on Robert for wanting her killed too. Good catch min on the choice of cups, hadn't thought of it like that before. She can choose her destiny, something that works into my interpretation of what Quaithe said to her. She needs to know who she is before she can move forward. Does that then leave Jon as Ned's actual bastard? We've got Arya getting hit for calling him a full brother, but not getting hit for calling him her half brother, which would also earn her a hit if he's indeed her cousin. Then there's Sansa telling Jon he's the son of the true warden of the north and he's got to take back Winterfell. This from a character that's always sided with her mother and had nothing but disdain for Jon and never called him brother. Not to mention all the other characters, saying Sansa will be going to/is now with her half brother at the Wall. If they're trying to push RLJ, why then not call him the bastard of Winterfell or the Stark bastard? It would create that distance between him being Ned's son and just the bastard boy who could be anyone of 4 Starks of the same generation's son.
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