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Post by cooterian15 on Jun 3, 2016 4:01:48 GMT
Well that would be totally different! But, I have to wonder what bringing Sandor Clegane would add to the show right now...I really don't see how it would enrich the story. I liked it better how it was done in the book...subtle and implied. CleganeBowl! That's what everyone is hyping. Meaning Sandor will fight Gregor and finally find peace in killing his undead brother. How they're going to work this in, I have no idea. It makes no sense to me, show wise, other than to produce another big fight scene a la Oberyn and Gregor. The CleganeBowl makes perfect sense (mummer's version) given Cersei's pending trail by combat and her champion Robert Strong. Perhaps Brienne in route to the Riverlands (I don't have geography to prove this) encounters the EB and recognizes Sandor. I wonder???
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Post by cooterian15 on Jun 3, 2016 4:03:06 GMT
CleganeBowl! That's what everyone is hyping. Meaning Sandor will fight Gregor and finally find peace in killing his undead brother. How they're going to work this in, I have no idea. It makes no sense to me, show wise, other than to produce another big fight scene a la Oberyn and Gregor. The CleganeBowl makes perfect sense (mummer's version) given Cersei's pending trail by combat and her champion Robert Strong. Perhaps Brienne in route to the Riverlands (I don't have geography to prove this) encounters the EB and recognizes Sandor. I wonder??? Oops. I should have put that in spoiler alert.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Jun 3, 2016 4:03:17 GMT
But I seem to recall that the books left Sandor's prospects open ended. Yes it was implied that he must have died; but is that really confirmed? Besides, when Brienne washes up on the fingers and encounters the EB...my mind drifts towards the Hound. What I meant was we're led to conclude that it's Sandor digging graves, so he's really not dead. Just the man he was, is dead. The EB's speech in the books is very carefully worded. He never says to Brienne that Sandor Clegane is dead. He very specifically tells her 'the man you're search for is dead' and he says he buried the Hound. Read the quote I put up in the last page, you'll see what I mean about care wording. A bit earlier the EB says his gravedigger will get no rest. The gravedigger who is taller than Brienne and walks with a limp and wears a hood at all times. Plus, Stranger, his stead is in the stables at the Quiet Isle.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Jun 3, 2016 4:05:18 GMT
Oops. I should have put that in spoiler alert. Nah, it's all good, we're just speculating. If we got it right than woohoo! If not then, oh well.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Jun 3, 2016 4:08:31 GMT
The CleganeBowl makes perfect sense (mummer's version) given Cersei's pending trail by combat and her champion Robert Strong. Yeah, but why would the Faith choose a gravedigger to defend the 7? Sandor isn't especially religious, and the brothers at the QI are not septons. The EB asks Meribald to hear the brother's confessions because the nearest sept was burned down. They don't even have a sept. Also the gravedigger is not confirmed as a brother of the faith, IIRC.
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Post by Melifeather on Jun 3, 2016 4:12:03 GMT
Well that would be totally different! But, I have to wonder what bringing Sandor Clegane would add to the show right now...I really don't see how it would enrich the story. I liked it better how it was done in the book...subtle and implied. CleganeBowl! That's what everyone is hyping. Meaning Sandor will fight Gregor and finally find peace in killing his undead brother. How they're going to work this in, I have no idea. It makes no sense to me, show wise, other than to produce another big fight scene a la Oberyn and Gregor. But wouldn't that imply that he didn't change? That he never found peace?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2016 4:15:18 GMT
CleganeBowl! That's what everyone is hyping. Meaning Sandor will fight Gregor and finally find peace in killing his undead brother. How they're going to work this in, I have no idea. It makes no sense to me, show wise, other than to produce another big fight scene a la Oberyn and Gregor. But wouldn't that imply that he didn't change? That he never found peace? I agree I think it would be fitting if he found peace in the end.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Jun 3, 2016 4:29:03 GMT
But wouldn't that imply that he didn't change? That he never found peace? That's what I'm saying, it makes no sense to me. If the Hound is dead, meaning that harsh face he puts on for the world to see, then Sandor should be at peace. No need for him to fight his brother in a trial by combat.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Jun 3, 2016 13:51:54 GMT
Yeah, but why would the Faith choose a gravedigger to defend the 7? Sandor isn't especially religious, and the brothers at the QI are not septons. The EB asks Meribald to hear the brother's confessions because the nearest sept was burned down. They don't even have a sept. Also the gravedigger is not confirmed as a brother of the faith, IIRC. **Disclaimer: The below will not take into account the show, as I have no idea what D&D are doing anymore.** You guys know I have a soft spot for the Hound - he's one of my top three favorite characters in the series. I don't think GRRM could have written a more perfectly grey character, a bitter angry brute with no compunction over killing or thieving or whatever when it suits his need, but still with a surprising moral code - IIRC even the show explicitly stated that in a scene between Sandor and Arya, which made me go Anwyay, Sandor decries religion and political institutions alike, so yeah, on face value it seems weird that he would become a champion of the Faith. Except... 1) if a man won't fight for a god or a crown, when he does fight, it's for a cause that he believes it right. Again, if you read through the Hound's passages you'll see that he has his own sense of what is just. He's the perfect weapon because he'll fight for himself. "My own dog now." He's not a broken man anymore. 2) Sandor's fueling fire in life is the hate of his brother. Yeah yeah, we got EB's speech about that fire being extinguished, but much like his little compadre Arya, Sandor is going to have a hard time becoming and staying "no one". As the Gravedigger he's being a good little acolyte just like Arya is in the HoBaW, but does anyone really believe that this will be the case indefinitely? That either one will be able to shed their canine pelts permanently? We've already seen Arya ditch the act in the show (although who knows whether this will happen in the books, I admit) so will Sandor be next? Possibly. If he gets wind that the Faith needs a champion to go up against UnGregor, will he be able to resist the urge to finally get the revenge he's wanted all his life? And again....if he fights, he will NOT be fighting FOR the Faith...but the Faith will be more than happy to use him anyway, that perfect weapon. 3) Even though EB and the rest of the fellas on the QI follow the Faith, I think they've got something else up the sleeves of their robes. Maybe they are just a peaceful lot doing their thing on the QI, but I get the sense they've been waiting for more than just Rhaegar's last ruby.Whatever 'seventh' they're waiting for, I have my doubts as to whether its purpose is for a religious bent. Or, if they are exactly what they say, they'll offer up Sandor for their religious cause. Either way, the NotHound is a means to someone else's end, and it just works out because NotHound wants to do it anyway. /diatribe
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Post by Melifeather on Jun 3, 2016 14:08:54 GMT
Whatever 'seventh' they're waiting for, I have my doubts as to whether its purpose is for a religious bent. Wouldn't the "seventh" be the Stranger?
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Jun 3, 2016 14:15:15 GMT
Wouldn't the "seventh" be the Stranger? That's what Maester Flagons has proposed, and it makes sense to me - especially if you consider Stranger = Death. They have been waiting for Death to join them. "The Stranger's face has been described as half-human, concealed beneath a hooded mantle. The wooden statue of the Stranger burnt on Dragonstone is carved to look more animal than human." Sandor Clegane, aka the Hound, with his half-burned face, now the hooded Gravedigger on the Quiet Isle. Methinks he's going to come calling for Gregor soon.
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Post by Melifeather on Jun 3, 2016 14:37:11 GMT
Wouldn't the "seventh" be the Stranger? That's what Maester Flagons has proposed, and it makes sense to me - especially if you consider Stranger = Death. They have been waiting for Death to join them. "The Stranger's face has been described as half-human, concealed beneath a hooded mantle. The wooden statue of the Stranger burnt on Dragonstone is carved to look more animal than human." Sandor Clegane, aka the Hound, with his half-burned face, now the hooded Gravedigger on the Quiet Isle. Methinks he's going to come calling for Gregor soon. I had forgotten what you just posted above, and the way you have this phrased makes it seem pretty obvious that this is likely.
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Post by Maester Flagons on Jun 3, 2016 14:52:26 GMT
I could see Sandor and Gregor brawling for the trial. In the show, people teleport to where they are needed, when needed. The book version, I think will play out differently. Sandor could be then end of undead Gregor, but I don't think that will happen in the trial by combat for Cersei. I feel that if Sandor finds a way to reemerge from solitude, he will be near unstoppable. And yes, the seventh as the Stranger is totally on. Do you guys think it's too early for the trial by combat? Would that come into play in a later episode?
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Jun 3, 2016 15:09:05 GMT
Sandor could be then end of undead Gregor, but I don't think that will happen in the trial by combat for Cersei. In my head fancanon, the Cleganebowl TBC doesn't happen (which means the show is totally going to do it). Instead, it gets interrupted somehow and Sandor loses his chance to go up against UnGregor. However, in some way or another Mountainstein is going to go after Sansa, and Sandor don't play that. THAT will be Cleganebowl, not any show put on by the Crown or the Faith.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Jun 3, 2016 15:34:00 GMT
And yes, the seventh as the Stranger is totally on. Do you guys think it's too early for the trial by combat? Would that come into play in a later episode? Well, they have Stranger in the stables so I agree, they will probably set up Sandor's being cured or brought back in this episode and then the next one be the trial. Episode 9 will be BastardBowl! Hype!
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