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Post by freyfamilyreunion on Jun 10, 2016 16:43:19 GMT
Frank L Baum (author of Wizard of Oz) wrote a short story whose protagonist is Jack Frost called the Runaway Shadows. This is the plot according to Wikipedia:
Now tell me if that doesn't resemble some of the theories about the Others that we've talked about and their possible relationship with Melisandre's shadow assassins.
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Post by snowfyre on Jun 10, 2016 16:53:09 GMT
Now tell me if that doesn't resemble some of the theories about the Others that we've talked about and their possible relationship with Melisandre's shadow assassins. Nice!
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Post by Melifeather on Jun 10, 2016 16:58:45 GMT
Frank L Baum (author of Wizard of Oz) wrote a short story whose protagonist is Jack Frost called the Runaway Shadows. This is the plot according to Wikipedia: Now tell me if that doesn't resemble some of the theories about the Others that we've talked about and their possible relationship with Melisandre's shadow assassins. Love this! I've already used Alice in Wonderland and Through the Lookinglass as part of my opening essay for the inversion chapters, which I believe are Jaberwocky...the words of which cannot be deciphered unless held up to a mirror. This is the foundation of the inversion theory...that the locations apply to the opposite on the map, and the characters are doing the opposite of whatever happened in the past. Patchface is Humpty Dumpty and the north is upside down and under water. The shadows of the children could equally apply to Craster's sons, and if Jon is the prince, then was his father the current Nights King?
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Post by Weasel Pie on Jun 10, 2016 17:22:20 GMT
freyfamilyreunion , that is a fantastic find! On the coldest day of the year, the Frost King allows his son Jack Frost to play pranks on humans. Otherbaby. he hits upon the idea of freezing the children's shadows. tagging jnr and princeofghost a passing ryl convinces the shadows to return to their humans. Otherwise, the frozen shadows will vanish to nothingness when they thaw in the warm weather to come. Does anyone know what a ryl is? So if we were to tie this into "the king who casts no shadow" it would mean someone whose "shadow" (spirit? soul?) was taken away to be frozen? The Prince becomes King, with Lady Lindeva as his Queen I guess FLB had no problem with the cousin thing. In trying to find out what a ryl is (seems to be a sort of spritelike creature), I came across another FLB story called The Ryl of the Lilies, which seems to be about some magical intervention necessary to produce a particular type of flower. Still doing some digging here... the topic is getting better and better Some Pig No Doubt Jack Frost - Marvel Comics
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Post by Weasel Pie on Jun 10, 2016 17:25:23 GMT
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Post by Melifeather on Jun 10, 2016 18:31:20 GMT
I think GRRM is the Ryl playing pranks on the readers with regards to Jack's parents.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Jun 10, 2016 19:09:15 GMT
They prove impervious to an attack by the ferocious tiger Kahtah; but a passing ryl convinces the shadows to return to their humans. Otherwise, the frozen shadows will vanish to nothingness when they thaw in the warm weather to come. 1. Impervious to attack by a warm blooded animal, interesting. Also ferocious tiger = shadowcat? 2. They have to return to their humans. Hmm, what would happen if they can't go back to mummy? jnr, snowfyre if Mel or Stannis had been close by, would the spirit/essanse have returned to either one? Could then Stannis have not wasted away and regained the animus he gave to produce the shadow do you think? 3. What a tie-in to your Shadows/Others theory guys!
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Post by freyfamilyreunion on Jun 10, 2016 19:27:47 GMT
Here is a link to the short story (very short story) in full: www.hungrytigerpress.com/tigertales/tigertale027.shtmlIt has me rethinking a bit about Dany's vision of the blue eyed king who cast no shadow. The knee jerk assumption is Stannis. I found language in the books that mirror the language in the vision which makes me think it could also be Euron. But there is another blue eyed king that we never really consider a king, Bran. In ASOS while Robb is still alive and after Robb is crowned King of the North, Bran is referred to as a prince. So after Robb's death doesn't that make Bran the new King of the North? (a title that used to be called King of Winter) If Bran is somehow involved in the creation of the White Walkers (perhaps a future Bran). And if the White Walkers are created in a manner similar to Melisandre's shadow assassin, only using ice magic rather than Melisandre's errr, black blood(?) then I wonder if future Bran's shadow was used to help create the White Walkers making future Bran the blue eyed king who cast no shadow???
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Jun 10, 2016 19:33:39 GMT
Marvel's mythological character Thor in this issue speculated that this Jack Frost may be the diminutive child of a Norse mythology Frost giant. OMG
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Post by Weasel Pie on Jun 10, 2016 20:03:26 GMT
In ASOS while Robb is still alive and after Robb is crowned King of the North, Bran is referred to as a prince. So after Robb's death doesn't that make Bran the new King of the North? (a title that used to be called King of Winter) If Bran is somehow involved in the creation of the White Walkers (perhaps a future Bran). This is an intriguing angle, I'm on board with this. Especially because it seemed from GRRM's 1993 letter that either Bran or Jon would end up on the wrong side of things. Jon being an illegitimate Stark, Bran is the Stark heir no matter what. If the Stark heir is always the KitN and the title is more magical than political, Bran is indeed a King already. The blue eyes could also indicate an Othered man of course - someone yet to be Othered who may not have blue eyes to start with.
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Post by Maester Flagons on Jun 10, 2016 20:13:38 GMT
blue eyed king that we never really consider a king, Bran. True. Nice toe-in all around.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Jun 11, 2016 0:56:10 GMT
I have been busy the last couple of days and haven't had a chance to really chime in, but I really like the propositions here. Good job guys!
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Post by wolfmaid7 on Jun 11, 2016 14:02:26 GMT
Is Martin's "spirit summer" a play on our notion of an "Indian summer?" In A Game of Thrones, Jon notices a "spirit summer" immediately after he joins the Night's Watch - and just after the Watch has found Othor and Jafer, with their star-blue eyes. In our world, meteorological purists say that a wave of unseasonal warmth in autumn can only truly be called an "Indian summer" when it follows a killing frost. Oh my gosh Snowy this is amazing!!! I just read this thread and some really nice angles.Of course i see parallels between the Oak and Holly king myths and the time of their great battle. And FFR,dude you rock with the Jack Frost association.I'll be back a bit later.
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Post by Melifeather on Jun 11, 2016 17:05:34 GMT
I like this description of Jack Frost in wikipedia:
Jack Frost is the personification of frost, ice, snow, sleet, and freezing cold weather,[1] a variant of Old Man Winter held responsible for frosty weather, for nipping the nose and toes in such weather, coloring the foliage in autumn, and leaving fernlike patterns on cold windows in winter.
Starting in late 19th century literature, more filled-out characterizations of Jack Frost have made him into a sprite-like character. He sometimes appears as a sinister mischief maker or as a hero.
Those weird spirals of the dead laying in the snow on the mummer's version could be inspired by "frost" patterns.
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Post by wolfmaid7 on Jun 12, 2016 0:29:55 GMT
Here is a link to the short story (very short story) in full: www.hungrytigerpress.com/tigertales/tigertale027.shtmlIt has me rethinking a bit about Dany's vision of the blue eyed king who cast no shadow. The knee jerk assumption is Stannis. I found language in the books that mirror the language in the vision which makes me think it could also be Euron. But there is another blue eyed king that we never really consider a king, Bran. In ASOS while Robb is still alive and after Robb is crowned King of the North, Bran is referred to as a prince. So after Robb's death doesn't that make Bran the new King of the North? (a title that used to be called King of Winter) If Bran is somehow involved in the creation of the White Walkers (perhaps a future Bran). And if the White Walkers are created in a manner similar to Melisandre's shadow assassin, only using ice magic rather than Melisandre's errr, black blood(?) then I wonder if future Bran's shadow was used to help create the White Walkers making future Bran the blue eyed king who cast no shadow??? Bran as the blue eyed king with no shadow coud definitely work.Though i think it is Jon and if Robb believed Bran and Rickon to be dead and named Jon(i believe he named Arya) that would fit even more.
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