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Post by Ser Duncan on Jul 13, 2016 14:51:03 GMT
This is the problem with taking a dream sequence and making it an actual accounting of events. The book has contradictory bits of information in it that can be explained if we accept that a dream is not reliable fact. In his dream Ned hears Lyanna yelling for him. In his waking memory he says she could barely speak above a whisper when he found her due to a fever having robbed her strength. Can't be both, even in the way the show explained it, because Lyanna was not dying from a fever, but from blood loss. So while it would make sense for her to be screaming in agony while Ned is fighting and then be able to only whisper by the time he got to her, it's not working with the same information we get in the books.
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Post by jnr on Jul 13, 2016 14:54:54 GMT
Of course. The dream also says there was a "storm of rose petals," and that the sky was "blood-streaked." Something tells me that that... was not actually the case. I do find Ned's dream-mind rather insightful in suggesting the eyes of death are blue, though. Not sure his conscious mind was aware of that.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Jul 13, 2016 15:10:34 GMT
I do find Ned's dream-mind rather insightful in suggesting the eyes of death are blue, though. Not sure his conscious mind was aware of that. No, but Martin's was
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Post by wolfmaid7 on Jul 13, 2016 15:15:31 GMT
Of course. The dream also says there was a "storm of rose petals," and that the sky was "blood-streaked." Sailor Moon,Ninja scroll and Kenshin legend of Batusai the Slasher....a million other Anime imagery. Its a beautiful stylistic choice,,Depending on what the association is to the girl when she gets slashed usually fighting mostly throwing herself between the blades and a loved one.They don't ever show her actually getting it...Cut to bloddy slash marks across the sky cutting the ribbon from her hair in two,or red roses being devastated scattered across it. That part in Ned's dream soooooo reminds me of that.
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Post by jnr on Jul 13, 2016 21:12:26 GMT
-- ASOIAF wiki, 2016
-- Heresy, 2014
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Post by min on Jul 13, 2016 21:48:13 GMT
-- ASOIAF wiki, 2016 -- Heresy, 2014 LOL!. I question how a newborn has brown eyes. Caucasian babies are often born with steel gray or dark blue eyes; they may stay gray or blue or turn green, hazel, or brown by the time they're 9 months old. That's because a child's irises (the colored part of the eye) may gain more pigment in the months after she's born, but they won't get "lighter" or more blue. - Google
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Post by Weasel Pie on Jul 13, 2016 22:15:09 GMT
And we don't even know if that very clean brown eyed baby is the baby Lyanna gave birth to... if she even gave birth. A brown eyed baby. Strange. Only a device for that cheesy shot between baby and Jon? You know who might have brown eyes at birth? A baby with Dornish blood. cough Aegon cough
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Post by wolfmaid7 on Jul 14, 2016 0:57:41 GMT
-- ASOIAF wiki, 2016 -- Heresy, 2014 Ohhh my gosh!! TV series already made the wiki? Hahahhaha.
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Post by jnr on Jul 14, 2016 14:40:40 GMT
Ohhh my gosh!! TV series already made the wiki? Hahahhaha. Of course! You can easily follow the logic: 1. Lyanna was shown with a baby; therefore the baby was hers2. Lyanna is said to have been kidnapped by Rhaegar; therefore Rhaegar is the father 3. The camera cut from the baby in Ned's arms to Jon Snow's face; therefore the baby is Jon Snow 4. It doesn't matter that Lyanna never said the baby was hers or that Rhaegar was the father Therefore, to quote the wiki: [R+L=J] is confirmed to be true in the television series at least The conclusion long jump displayed here is Olympian. If the author isn't going to Rio to represent a country, I can only guess it's because of fear of Zika.
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Post by min on Jul 14, 2016 15:40:43 GMT
Not to mention the Westeros Podcast confirming that that horse left the barn long ago.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Jul 14, 2016 16:17:10 GMT
The conclusion long jump displayed here is Olympian. If the author isn't going to Rio to represent a country, I can only guess it's because of fear of Zika. Not to mention the Westeros Podcast confirming that that horse left the barn long ago. I would expect no less from anything with a Westeros label to it. What gets me though is the incredible amount of people that have read and reread these books for years and simply accept RLJ as truth based on the fact that Westeros owners and regulars see it as practically canon. I mean did they not ever come up with their own thoughts on the matter? And say for the sake of argument none of them did, did none of them think, well it's so obvious it can't be true? Outside of Heresy, and sites started by heretics, the vast major just take it on faith RLJ is true. *I don't know where Reddit stands on this matter because I don't read it unless someone points to an article, and then I only read said article which is usually nothing to do with RLJ.
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Post by Melifeather on Jul 14, 2016 17:58:40 GMT
The conclusion long jump displayed here is Olympian. If the author isn't going to Rio to represent a country, I can only guess it's because of fear of Zika. Not to mention the Westeros Podcast confirming that that horse left the barn long ago. I would expect no less from anything with a Westeros label to it. What gets me though is the incredible amount of people that have read and reread these books for years and simply accept RLJ as truth based on the fact that Westeros owners and regulars see it as practically canon. I mean did they not ever come up with their own thoughts on the matter? And say for the sake of argument none of them did, did none of them think, well it's so obvious it can't be true? Outside of Heresy, and sites started by heretics, the vast major just take it on faith RLJ is true. *I don't know where Reddit stands on this matter because I don't read it unless someone points to an article, and then I only read said article which is usually nothing to do with RLJ. I have tried over and over to provide the alternate context that GRRM has written regarding the parallel inversions, but all I get are crickets...I'm pretty much ignored. Oh well. They cannot say that no one saw it coming that Rhaegar was setup as a patsy.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Jul 14, 2016 18:03:52 GMT
I even have my doubts that Lyanna is Jon's mother.
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Post by min on Jul 14, 2016 18:24:19 GMT
I would expect no less from anything with a Westeros label to it. What gets me though is the incredible amount of people that have read and reread these books for years and simply accept RLJ as truth based on the fact that Westeros owners and regulars see it as practically canon. I mean did they not ever come up with their own thoughts on the matter? And say for the sake of argument none of them did, did none of them think, well it's so obvious it can't be true? Outside of Heresy, and sites started by heretics, the vast major just take it on faith RLJ is true. *I don't know where Reddit stands on this matter because I don't read it unless someone points to an article, and then I only read said article which is usually nothing to do with RLJ. I have tried over and over to provide the alternate context that GRRM has written regarding the parallel inversions, but all I get are crickets...I'm pretty much ignored. Oh well. They cannot say that no one saw it coming that Rhaegar was setup as a patsy. Most people want a simple explanation, something that confirms their bias. The inversion theory is a lot more sophisticated AND much more interesting. The idea that the story is replaying and moving back through time, to the breaking of the world is fantastic!
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Post by Melifeather on Jul 14, 2016 18:33:45 GMT
the breaking of the world is fantastic! Glad you brought this up, Min, because it's the perfect introduction. I've just begun listening to the audio book The Wheel of Time - Eye of the World, because I was hoping to find insights into what GRRM might have in mind. Min has already read up through book 3 and she's going to reread book one so that we can start a book discussion which I will start a thread for in the Oldtown section. I'd like to invite anyone interested to join us there once it's up and posted.
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