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Post by wolfmaid7 on Jul 9, 2016 21:22:32 GMT
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Post by Melifeather on Jul 9, 2016 22:23:01 GMT
I think they care about the books, but I think they're telling a slightly different story. One thats following the expected story line but doesn't reveal GRRMs biggest twists.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Jul 9, 2016 22:36:51 GMT
I'd say they care about the books in a tangential way. As we've seen theories from both Heresy and RLJ have be introduced. I'm thinking they are catering to fans more than canon. Mind you, the canon has not yet been written, so I think they are taking their best guess as to how this all unfolds.
Will read and comment more closely on the article later. Good topic for discussion though!
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Post by Ser Duncan on Jul 10, 2016 2:40:41 GMT
WTF!? Really?
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Post by wolfmaid7 on Jul 10, 2016 2:49:00 GMT
Hahaha,what indeed.The bit about it being predictable is what got me.What you source from fan theories instead of the authour's material.Well that's not their fault now isn't it.
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Post by jnr on Jul 10, 2016 13:20:07 GMT
From the article: Perhaps, if every episode is loaded with plot progress and nothing but. The time for filler scenes like the one in which Tyrion is telling jokes to Grey Worm... purely to kill minutes, apparently... is over. The same is obviously even truer for the books, but based on the sample chapters I've seen, GRRM doesn't yet realize it, nor the consequences of it. This reminds me of his account from January in which as late as August, he still thought he could finish TWOW by Dec 31., but as we now know, that was wildly, even ludicrously, optimistic. He couldn't do it, and I'm not sure he can tell half the remaining story in one book, either. This is easily solved in the obvious and expected way, in both books and show. They're going to feel a lot more meaningful when the Wall falls and Westeros as an entire continent is threatened. This can't be solved on the show because of the hilariously incorrect angle D&D took on their origin, but I don't think it's particularly problematic because the show audience doesn't particularly care about or want human complexity from them. It wants them to serve merely to provide the conflict by which human nature and interests are revealed... like the zombies on The Walking Dead. Certainly. D&D are not very good at storytelling compared to GRRM and if you force them to do it, because there's no new canon, things will decline. Are people finally catching on? Or is the show such a separate entity they don't even care abot the books? The huge majority of the show audience doesn't care about the books, no. D&D, IMO, don't know the major mysteries yet to be revealed in the books, and so are simply guessing along lines suggested by the books, as the fans have done before them. I don't think they really know or care much about fan theories except for RLJ. For instance, the origin of the White Walkers provided on the show (Craster provides babies that are transformed into more White Walkers) is directly inspired by the flat statement of Craster's infamous "wife on the left" that the Others are Craster's sons. The idea that the CotF originally created the White Walkers is directly suggested by the creepy imagery GRRM shrouded them in, in ADWD, via obvious measures such as packing the cave with skulls and the throat-cutting weirwood vision. If D&D leaped to obvious conclusions on that canonical basis, and have no idea what fan theories are, I wouldn't be the least surprised. But I think they will be, should they read the next two books...
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Post by Maester Flagons on Jul 10, 2016 13:28:50 GMT
I pulled this from the article, They are not meant to be the ultimate villian. A threat, definitely, but the winter itself will be killer. The people in power are the ultimate villians. And let's not forget that Dany and the gang are now in Westeros to help everyone get dead. Still, the creation of the Night's King was lacking. I'm guessing all his comrades were also created by the cotf? Dunno. Since the wws are somewhere between death and life then I guess this is how they can control and reanimate the dead. Jon should play into this somehow: his death has not come into play yet, and I think (hope) this is why the show writers have left out any importance of Jon coming back to life. (Beyond the Night's Watch vows)
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Post by Ser Duncan on Jul 10, 2016 15:20:19 GMT
Hahaha,what indeed.The bit about it being predictable is what got me.What you source from fan theories instead of the authour's material.Well that's not their fault now isn't it. Quite true. What I mean by that though (which I'll acknowledge was badly expressed) was the comment of them having time to correct the problems. I don't see much reason to delay production until winter when they've been shooting winterish scenes for 6 years now without a problem. Rather I think they're* waiting to see if WoW comes out so they can source some more material. And I agree, if they're* going to put fan theories into their show, of course the end product will be predictable. OTOH, these guys are film writers (well one wrote a novel no one read) so just like a film, things will be predictable. And increasingly GoT is feeling more a more like a film with rather long intermissions. *see that's how you use that word correctly
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Post by Ser Duncan on Jul 10, 2016 16:42:26 GMT
I think the problem here was the dynamic duo's decision to make the WWs have a leader. In the books there is no leader, the Others that we see work as a unit, not under the direct command of one being. Perhaps Oz's wizard is beyond the curtain of light Bran sees, but we certainly don't.
Now when you do that, make one person the driving force behind a group, then you have to give him both a personality and motivation. Take Ramsay for example. He is a one dimensional, killing machine. But he has both personality (albeit a sick one) and motivation (it's fun to be a loony and I want to impress dad). The Night King, even in his creation story, has neither. Had D&D left the WW/Others leaderless then they would be scary and the big bad. We'd have a bunch of guys that can create an army out of your fallen and want to recruit every member of Westeros to their ranks. Yes it's rather zombie, but let's face it, that's how it is in the books. And in the books they neither fall flat nor do they disappoint our expectations -- because we've got none for them beyond their being the ultimate threat to humanity. And that is all they need to be for the show, a foil to all the scheming, conniving and backstabbing power-plays.
Seems to me the dynamic duo created more problems than they solved in including a Night King as the leading force behind the Others and wights.
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Post by min on Oct 11, 2016 18:29:23 GMT
An image from Bran's ToJ visions of Ned's bloody handUnder the old English forest laws, bloody hand was one of the four kinds of trespasses in the royal forest, by which the offender, being apprehended and found with his hands or other body part stained with blood, is judged to have killed the deer, even though he was not found hunting or chasing. - wikipedia nfs.sparknotes.com/macbeth/page_100.html"The leaders of this war have the blood of many thousands of people on their hands."
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Post by Maester Flagons on Oct 11, 2016 20:30:06 GMT
An image from Bran's ToJ visions of Ned's bloody handUnder the old English forest laws, bloody hand was one of the four kinds of trespasses in the royal forest, by which the offender, being apprehended and found with his hands or other body part stained with blood, is judged to have killed the deer, even though he was not found hunting or chasing. - wikipedia nfs.sparknotes.com/macbeth/page_100.html"The leaders of this war have the blood of many thousands of people on their hands." Whose blood is on his hands? I don't recall this and the episodes are no longer recorded.
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Post by min on Oct 11, 2016 20:59:11 GMT
An image from Bran's ToJ visions of Ned's bloody handUnder the old English forest laws, bloody hand was one of the four kinds of trespasses in the royal forest, by which the offender, being apprehended and found with his hands or other body part stained with blood, is judged to have killed the deer, even though he was not found hunting or chasing. - wikipedia nfs.sparknotes.com/macbeth/page_100.html"The leaders of this war have the blood of many thousands of people on their hands." Whose blood is on his hands? I don't recall this and the episodes are no longer recorded. Supposedly Lyanna's. This is a screen shot from the bloody bed scene. But now I'm suspicious and I wonder if it's Robert's blood.
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Post by min on Oct 11, 2016 21:18:36 GMT
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