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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 7, 2016 1:31:21 GMT
And not everyone believes the Others and white walkers are interchangeable phrases/names. Which led jnr years ago to call the ice creatures Popsicles. That way we know what we're talking about. So ac if you come across names like Ser Puddles (the popsicle that Sam stabbed with the obsidian blade) or Ser Crackles (the popsicle that killed Waymar the prologue) they too are specific names for the WWs/Others.
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Post by ac on Aug 9, 2016 2:29:18 GMT
And not everyone believes the Others and white walkers are interchangeable phrases/names. Yeah, it's one of those weird ones. Why GRRM chose to use white walkers and wights - it seems unnecessarily confusing. That and the 3,947 Brandons!
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Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 14, 2016 19:07:56 GMT
I briefly brought this up to Some Pig No Doubt because it's Marvel related and Ser Duncan suggested I add it here. Bifrost is a "rainbow" or "light" bridge that connects the world of humans with the world of the gods, in Norse Mythology as well as in the Marvel Universe. (Insert Ragnarok discussion here). Muspell is the realm of fire My memory was jogged by the Bifrost imagery in Thor.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 14, 2016 19:18:55 GMT
I have so much to say I don't even know where to start. As you guys know, the mythology is certainly being used in ASOIAF, but IMO it's coming from the Marvelized version rather than the historical version. I *think* George is sortof splitting the Asgard atom and making part of it King's Landing and part of it the North, because both places share a lot of common imagery and plot arc with Marvel Asgard. Some of it is detailed in the Thor thread but methinks it needs closer examination. SO EXCITING!
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Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 14, 2016 19:38:39 GMT
IMO it's coming from the Marvelized version rather than the historical version. sandwiches! You nailed this in your Marvel threads, where it had become too dry and "Nordic Lit 101" elsewhere. I *think* George is sortof splitting the Asgard atom and making part of it King's Landing and part of it the North, because both places share a lot of common imagery and plot arc with Marvel Asgard. If the Wall is a hinge, they could actually be one and the same place. As above, so below? Not sure. But one thing I do know, D&D made damned well sure to throw in what seems like a completely nonsensical addition to Dany's HotU vision. That after she sees the destruction of the throne room, she then passes under the wall, and goes North of the Wall to find Drogo and Rhaego still alive. In the snow. Very confused. Possibly fulfilling MMR's prophecy? We may need a thread on the Bifrost
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 14, 2016 23:26:36 GMT
Not ignoring! I am in the middle of some home renovations so I've little time to devote here. I love the Bifrost it is one aspect of the curtain of light I overlooked. Loads here to connect with our story. Will come back to it later tonight.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 14, 2016 23:52:56 GMT
I just started a thread in the Marvel forum.
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Post by min on Jan 1, 2017 20:05:00 GMT
There is a lot more information about the structure of the Wall in DwD. I'll copy this quote I made at Westeros here so I don't lose it: Above ground the Wall is built on a hilly terrain to the West and a flatter terrain to the east with an inconsistent height between 800 - 900 feet but dipping into valley etc. Jon thinks Bran the Builder bridged the tops with blocks of ice to make the wall. Beneath the Wall, we have cave structures consistent with past volcanic formations and activity: This description of the 'underground' portion of Castle Black is consistent with Winterfell and various other places in the books. So I think we are talking about Some Pig's concept of Planetos Ring of Fire. I think it's possible that Martin has modeled the North and the Land of Always Winter after Iceland. The map of Iceland and the land north of the Wall might be similar if it wasn't for all that ice. What is interesting about this new map is the ridge of mountains in the north resembling fissures: Volcanic activity in Iceland erupts through fissures in the earth and the Wall may represent a collossal rent in the earth capped and subdued with glaciers and ice magic. It seems more likely to me that the Long Night was a result of volcanic activity rather than the moon exploding or comets falling on the planet. That the magic of the Wall is meant to subvert that force and end the Long Night. Just as Icelanders poured seawater onto an erupting volcano in the 70's to freeze the rock and divert the lava flow; something similar may have been in effect at the Wall. Dragonstone has it's equivalent in the Island of Surtsey (Cersei) off the coast of Iceland. That the tunnels beneath the Wall are called wormways is interesting; given this quote from Danaerys: It seems more likely to me that the Firewyrms aren't a species of dragon that tunnel through the rock; but rivers of molten lava that create the wormways and cavern system, the wells and hot pools across Planetos. Moqorro gives a pretty good description of a massive fissure eruption: Along with these massive eruptions are copious amounts of ash that blacken the sky and cause blood red sunrises and sunsets. Black ash has a muddy consistency and so much of it is likely to have fallen across a large landmass, that the black roads that traverse Essos are probably made of the stuff. Any ash that would have fallen in Westeros would be covered quickly by snow in the north obscuring any evidence of past eruptions. The Wall could have copious amounts of obsidian in it's foundation rock. And so we have the blood-streaked sky of Eddard's dream rather than the pink sky of Dawn: This is an interesting documentary on Iceland's volcanos; eruptions where people thought it was 'the end of the world'; entering the mouth of a volcano is like being swallowed or consumed. It provides a good explanation for how the underground cavern systems develop. I think the Long Night was a result of volcanic activity and if the Wall should fall; those forces will be unleashed again.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Jan 1, 2017 21:24:56 GMT
Volcanic activity in Iceland erupts through fissures in the earth and the Wall may represent a collossal rent in the earth capped and subdued with glaciers and ice magic. It seems more likely to me that the Long Night was a result of volcanic activity rather than the moon exploding or comets falling on the planet. That the magic of the Wall is meant to subvert that force and end the Long Night. Just as Icelanders poured seawater onto an erupting volcano in the 70's to freeze the rock and divert the lava flow; something similar may have been in effect at the Wall. YES!!! Iceland is one of the Large Igneous Provinces (LIPs) that I'm eyeballing for comparison to the North. I've got some tabs up with data abou this to dump in my Ring of Fire thread, but keep getting sidetracked.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Jan 1, 2017 21:39:16 GMT
You know I'm all about the cave systems. It seems more likely to me that the Firewyrms aren't a species of dragon that tunnel through the rock; but rivers of molten lava that create the wormways and cavern system, the wells and hot poots across Planetos. Great observation min. I really like where you're going with this. ... being embers and ash in the sky?
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Post by Melifeather on Jan 1, 2017 22:51:33 GMT
I agree that the volcanic eruption was the third sword that pierced Nissa Nissa and that the thousand thousand dragons that poured forth were burning rock. It may also have been what was done to defeat the white walkers.
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Post by Melifeather on Jan 1, 2017 22:51:54 GMT
... being embers and ash in the sky? That symbolism seems very apt.
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Post by min on Jan 1, 2017 23:05:46 GMT
Volcanic activity in Iceland erupts through fissures in the earth and the Wall may represent a collossal rent in the earth capped and subdued with glaciers and ice magic. It seems more likely to me that the Long Night was a result of volcanic activity rather than the moon exploding or comets falling on the planet. That the magic of the Wall is meant to subvert that force and end the Long Night. Just as Icelanders poured seawater onto an erupting volcano in the 70's to freeze the rock and divert the lava flow; something similar may have been in effect at the Wall. YES!!! Iceland is one of the Large Igneous Provinces (LIPs) that I'm eyeballing for comparison to the North. I've got some tabs up with data abou this to dump in my Ring of Fire thread, but keep getting sidetracked. There's no doubt in my mind that Iceland is the template for the land of ice and fire. After watching the documentary; all of the underground structures and cave systems are made by rivers of molten lava that drain away leaving chasms that may or may not fill will water. And so we have the bottom-less wells, underground rivers, great halls. A massive fissure eruption can cover a lot of ground in a short period of time and affect whole continents. It can spew red hot chunks of rock high into the atmosphere giving onlookers their bleeding stars, poison the land and the air.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Jan 1, 2017 23:12:01 GMT
There's no doubt in my mind that Iceland is the template for the land of ice and fire. After watching the documentary; all of the underground structures and cave systems are made by rivers of molten lava that drain away leaving chasms that may or may not fill will water. And so we have the bottom-less wells, underground rivers, great halls. A massive fissure eruption can cover a lot of ground in a short period of time and affect whole continents. It can spew red hot chunks of rock high into the atmosphere giving onlookers their bleeding stars, poison the land and the air. ... and a great underground sea, and moving water at the bottom of the well at Nightfort. And wherever Patchface was. And whatever is under the Womb of the World at the Mother of Mountains in Vaes Dothrak. I right there with ya min.
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Post by min on Jan 1, 2017 23:27:41 GMT
... being embers and ash in the sky? I wonder what the connection is here with Arthur Dayne and the Dawn Sword. The blood-streaked sky at dawn IMO points to the previous long night. If this is meant to be the rose of Winterfell (dead and black); this could refer to Jon, Bran and/or Arya, who we could consider to be the agents of the storm. I also think they are the '3 heads of the 'ice dragon' which is personified by the Wall and the power it contains. It may be that whomever is raising the wights (blue as the eyes of death) is using the power stored in the Wall to do so. There is some hint of that in the House of the Undying and it's connection to the Wall. I'm just not sure how Arthur Dayne fits in and whether his death is like a kinslaying. "Now it begins.... now it ends" or the alpha and the omega or the dragon swallowing it's own tail. I don't know; it's still confusing. It's a reboot in some way. There is certainly a lot of dawn symbolism associated with Jon but we only get one reference to the morning star in Jon's POV while there are numerous references to 'his old friend', the ice dragon. More on that later...
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