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Post by min on Aug 22, 2016 18:03:42 GMT
Just rereading bits where Willem Darry is mentioned; the first being SoS Chapter 37 Jaime V. Jaime and Brienne are dining with Roose Bolton and discussing Vargo Hoat:
"Lord Vargo abandoned House Lannister because I offered him Harrenhal, a reward a thousand times greater than any he could hope to have from Lord Tywin. As a stranger to Westeros, he did not know the prize was poisoned."
"The curse of Harren the Black?" mocked Jaime.
"The curse of Tywin Lannister." Bolton held out his goblet and Elmer refilled it silently. "Our goat should have consulted the Tarbecks or Reynes. They might have warned him about how your lord father deals with betrayal."
"You have no pity for our wretched doomed goat? Ah, but the gods must ... else why deliver you into his hands?" Bolton chewed another chunk of meat. "Karhold is smaller and meaner than Harrenhal, but it lies well beyond the reach of the lion's claws. Once wed to Alys Karstark, Hoat might be a lord in truth. If he could collect some gold from your father so much the better, but he would have delivered you to Lord Rickard no matter how much Lord Tywin paid. His price would be the maid and safe refuge.
I don't know; this seems to have echoes in the past, to Lyanna; perhaps something to do with selling out Tywin or the Starks for a lordship, maid and safe refuge.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 22, 2016 19:07:01 GMT
Just rereading bits where Willem Darry is mentioned; the first being SoS Chapter 37 Jaime V. Jaime and Brienne are dining with Roose Bolton and discussing Vargo Hoat: "Lord Vargo abandoned House Lannister because I offered him Harrenhal, a reward a thousand times greater than any he could hope to have from Lord Tywin. As a stranger to Westeros, he did not know the prize was poisoned."
"The curse of Harren the Black?" mocked Jaime.
"The curse of Tywin Lannister." Bolton held out his goblet and Elmer refilled it silently. "Our goat should have consulted the Tarbecks or Reynes. They might have warned him about how your lord father deals with betrayal."
"You have no pity for our wretched doomed goat? Ah, but the gods must ... else why deliver you into his hands?" Bolton chewed another chunk of meat. "Karhold is smaller and meaner than Harrenhal, but it lies well beyond the reach of the lion's claws. Once wed to Alys Karstark, Hoat might be a lord in truth. If he could collect some gold from your father so much the better, but he would have delivered you to Lord Rickard no matter how much Lord Tywin paid. His price would be the maid and safe refuge. I don't know; this seems to have echoes in the past, to Lyanna; perhaps something to do with selling out Tywin or the Starks for a lordship, maid and safe refuge. Well, not sure if this applies to Lyanna or not, but since Ser Jorah sold some "slaves" for gold and safe passage across the sea to Pentos (I think) before Ned Stark could come and take his head...well, that may be the parallel.
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Post by ac on Aug 24, 2016 21:55:32 GMT
I read an interesting thread here about Dany. Sounds like some of you already know about it. I'm pretty convinced at this point that Dany's memory and background story are fabricated but she is Rhaegar's daughter as some have suggested here. I'm just not so sure she's Lyanna's daughter. Her affinity with horses might come from a karmic association going back to the original mother of dragons and the Dothraki people long ago. She doesn't need the wolf blood to make the soul's connection with horses or dragons. She looks like Ashara and she's her father's daughter. That clinches it for me. The idea that she and Viserys spent part of their lives apart is brilliant and that Varys and Illyrio have been planning stuff for years before she ended up in Pentos is pretty solid argument. That Viserys is in on it is also brilliant. He tells her she's a dragon, not a fish and she smells like horse. That pretty much places her in Dorne in a fishing village. The dornish are also know for their horses. Are they not? So Willem Darrey is not the old bear. Someone who may have been poisoned and Dany appropriated thereafter sent to Viserys. The servants didn't steal the riches that Viserys had so he couldn't have been with her. The bit that fits with Rheagar travelling to Harrenhal could be that Ashara was at Harrenhal after being dismissed by Elia. She wouldn't go back with her to KL if there was some hanky panky going on with Rhaegar and Ashara at the tourney. That would seem to be a good reason for Rhaegar and Arthur to be in the vicinity. Is this what Littlefinger discovered at the Inn? Also consider that Willem had soft hands and walked with a cane in Dany's vision and Ned saying that he would rather trust a child to a pit viper. Someone from House Martell? Wow, I didn't anticipate how long that post you linked to would be! I don't necessarily agree with everything that he points to as evidence but I can get behind Dany being Rhaegar and Ashara's kid. And having spent her earliest years separated from Viserys. It also gives a more believable reason from Ashara's subsequent suicide / faked death (I lean towards her actually being dead). Losing your lover and brother in the space of a month of two combined with knowing you'll never be able to see your child again is pretty heavy stuff. Following on from that my newest pet theory, which fits with this, is that Jon is Lyanna and Aerys' child. That the whole thing between Rhaegar and Lyanna at the Harrenhall tourney was some kind of mis-direct which unfortunately stoked Aerys' paranoia and led Lyanna's abduction. The Starks knew there was nothing between the two of them and so Brandon blames Rhaegar for what happened.
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Post by Maester Flagons on Aug 24, 2016 23:47:32 GMT
Following on from that my newest pet theory, which fits with this, is that Jon is Lyanna and Aeron's child. Aeron Greyjoy?
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Post by min on Aug 24, 2016 23:52:37 GMT
Following on from that my newest pet theory, which fits with this, is that Jon is Lyanna and Aeron's child. That the whole thing between Rhaegar and Lyanna at the Harrenhall tourney was some kind of mis-direct which unfortunately stoked Aerys' paranoia and led Lyanna's abduction. The Starks knew there was nothing between the two of them and so Brandon blames Rhaegar for what happened. Interesting. Aerys Targaryen as Jon's father. Add another villain to the list.
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Post by ac on Aug 25, 2016 0:09:45 GMT
Following on from that my newest pet theory, which fits with this, is that Jon is Lyanna and Aeron's child. Aeron Greyjoy? Sorry, I mistyped. As min said it should have said Aerys.
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Post by ac on Aug 25, 2016 0:16:47 GMT
Following on from that my newest pet theory, which fits with this, is that Jon is Lyanna and Aeron's child. That the whole thing between Rhaegar and Lyanna at the Harrenhall tourney was some kind of mis-direct which unfortunately stoked Aerys' paranoia and led Lyanna's abduction. The Starks knew there was nothing between the two of them and so Brandon blames Rhaegar for what happened. Interesting. Aerys Targaryen as Jon's father. Add another villain to the list. I'll try and put something a bit more substantive together when I get a chance.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 27, 2016 18:47:12 GMT
I too at point, long ago (I've been reading and rereading these fecking books since the late 90s) thought the same thing -- Jon is Aerys son by Lyanna. The main reason for me is this -- Aerys kidnaps Lyanna, believing she was the Knight of the Laughing Tree and Rheagar finds out about it. He and his merry band go out and find Lyanna, rescue her from Aerys, but do not return her to the Starks because she's pregnant and this would only make things worse between everybody. Mind you, I've not thought about this in a long time, so I've forgotten a lot of my 'evidence'. If you can come up with the goods ac, that would be brilliant.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 27, 2016 18:49:54 GMT
I'm eager to see this fleshed out as well...Aerys has always been in my "Top 3 Contenders" rotation.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 27, 2016 18:58:01 GMT
I'm thinking this deserves it's own thread, no?
A(erys)+L=J?
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Post by ac on Aug 27, 2016 19:10:33 GMT
I too at point, long ago (I've been reading and rereading these fecking books since the late 90s) thought the same thing -- Jon is Aerys son by Lyanna. The main reason for me is this -- Aerys kidnaps Lyanna, believing she was the Knight of the Laughing Tree and Rheagar finds out about it. He and his merry band go out and find Lyanna, rescue her from Aerys, but do not return her to the Starks because she's pregnant and this would only make things worse between everybody. Mind you, I've not thought about this in a long time, so I've forgotten a lot of my 'evidence'. If you can come up with the goods ac, that would be brilliant. I'm eager to see this fleshed out as well...Aerys has always been in my "Top 3 Contenders" rotation. No pressure then. Like I said on the other thread it is slow going and I am anything but a natural writer.
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Post by min on Aug 27, 2016 19:11:41 GMT
Can we add Aerys + Ashara = Dayn Aerys?
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 27, 2016 19:21:19 GMT
Can we add Aerys + Ashara = Dayn Aerys? I actually think this is more likely than Jon being Aerys + Lyanna. Her name is an acronym!
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Post by min on Aug 27, 2016 19:28:42 GMT
Can we add Aerys + Ashara = Dayn Aerys? I actually think this is more likely than Jon being Aerys + Lyanna. Her name is an acronym! I still think Jon is Ned's and Ashara's. It's the whole palestone sword thing. But the backstory to Aerys + Lyanna is so much cleaner than everything else and makes better narratives sense. So many references around Jon and Ned won the sword in combat. I don't think it's at Starfall. It's the opposite of obsidion - fire made into stone. Ice made into stone. If you recall that dragonglass absorbs the cold or ice magic that binds the white walker together and is too cold to touch. With all it's allusions to ice magic; what does the Dawn Sword do if plunged into the heart of a fiery demon? Absorb the fire or the fire magic; generate it's own heat? Holy old burning swords. What could you do with something like that? Plunge it into the Wall? Har. I suppose the ice blood side of the equation could just as easily come from Lyanna. This would explain why Ned didn't have any animosity towards Rhaegar and Arthur Dayne. And why he never says anything to Robert about it. The Mad King's son? I think the biggest laugh I would get would be if Rhaegar and Lyanna did have a thing and it turned out to be fAegon.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 27, 2016 21:08:59 GMT
No pressure then. Like I said on the other thread it is slow going and I am anything but a natural writer. Sorry mate! Didn't mean you have to come up with a full blown essay or anything of the like. Just mean if you jot down your thoughts and how you got to there is enough. No need to be formal or anything of the kind. Look at how your Did GRRM Lie thread took off! (Which I am yet to finish, btw! Sheesh I take a little break to deal with real life stuff and now I'm days behind!)
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