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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 14, 2016 23:52:04 GMT
Inspired by Weasel Pie and the comparison of the Bifrost Bridge to "the curtain of light at the end of the world". It has been noted many places that ASOIAF characters and events can be tied to real Norse mythology - however, instead of focusing on the "real world" history, I would like to focus on the MARVELIZED version of the mythology...which is basically what you get when the myth and 60s science fiction meet and have a fantasy baby. Although all the Nordic Lit 101 stuff and highbrow intellectual analysis is great and all, I'm like 90% sure that George pulled his data from the comics rather than poring over the Poetic Edda, so let's look at his inspiration. This thread is for brainstorming, btw....I have nothing written up for this at all. Jump in anytime! Note: In the Black Armor/Thor thread, I compared Asgard to King's Landing. After some consideration, I think that needs to be modified and Asgard is actually all of Westeros. That being said, I will info-dump some bio of Marvel Asgard next.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 15, 2016 0:38:04 GMT
Maps: Facts: Asgard is home to the gods It is a small planetoid - about the size of the US - in another dimension It is a flattish land mass suspended in "the Sea of Space" It does not have a sun, but has periods of night and day "There is no evidence of changing seasons, however portions of Asgard are in perpetual winter while others are in perpetual summer." The Asgardian dimension has other areas; in total they are known as the Nine Worlds Four of the worlds are on the main landmass: 1) Asgard, home of the Aesir - I will get into the races later, but Odin comes from this race. 2) Vanaheim, home of the sister race the Vanir, a people known as "The Wise Gods of Old" 3) Nidavellier, home of the Dwarves (and Rock Trolls) - this will be the West 4) Aflheim, home of the Light Elves - this will be central Westeros where the CotF used to be The other realms are in other nearby dimensions: 5) Jotunheim, realm of the Frost Giants, high in the mountains - obvious 6) Svartalfheim, realm of the Dark Elves - Shadowlands of Asshai. Imma throw in a picture here, just so you can see the blatant similarities: Asshai, from TWOIAF: And Svartalfheim, from the comics: I mean, seriously, people. It's made even better by this: 7) Muspelheim, land of the fire demons and its ruler Surtur - this is basically the inside of a volcano, so I'm guessing this equals what was once Valyria 8) Niffleheim, realm of the dead - includes Hel and Valhalla 9) Midgard - Earth I have no counterpart for the dead realms yet. I'm sure the greenseers and weirnet can be worked into this somewhere but I dunno. "The Continent of Asgard has many region such as Nornheim (home of the Three Norns and Karnilla the Norn Queen), Gundersheim, Varinheim (home of the Fenris Wolf), Ringsfjord, Thryheim, Hindi, Skornheim, Gymirsgard (swamplands), Nastrond (home to Fafnir the Dragon). There are also smaller Kingdoms such as Harokin and Jolena." Asgard has portals to the other parts of the Nine Worlds The only permanent portal to Earth is Bifrost, the Rainbow Bridge Bifrost was shattered during the events of Ragnarok, making passage to Earth difficult "Another unique feature of Asgard is the Cave of Time, an apparently natural phenomenon through which passage to other times is possible."
Midgard/Earth's axis is in alignment with one of the roots of Yggdrasil, the world tree (it is a 'cosmic ash', whatever that means) There are six humanoid races within Asgard but they are all considered Asgardians There are other unique creatures that exist in Asgard: 1) Jormungand, the Midgard Serpent - "an immense snake or dragon whose body encircles the inner edge of the mountains of Jotunheim (land of the Frost Giants) closest to Midgard. The Midgard Serpent lies at the very edge of the dimensional boundary between Jotunheim and Midgard and prevents easy passage between dimensions. This is the Wall, folks. 2) Nidhogg, the winged dragon who gnaws on the roots of Yggdrasil from its lair in Niffleheim. 3) Fenris, the Wolf God, chained to a rock in Varenheim by an enchanted fetter. Fenris is prophecied to devour Odin during Ragnarok. 4) Ymir, the Ice Giant. I'm just going to quote the whole bio here because it's awesome. Ymir came to being on Niffleheim. He is oldest and most powerful of the Ice Giants, an otherdimensional race of enormous humanoid creatures. The huge size, durability, and colossal strength of the Ice Giants made them formidable foes to the gods of Asgard over the millennia. Except for the fire demon Surtur, Ymir was the oldest known being in the Nine Worlds. It was said that millennia ago warm air from the realm of fire, Muspelheim, crossed a dimensional barrier into the location of the magical Well of Life. Tons of ice from Niffleheim, the realm of ice and cold, formed above the Well of Life. It was said that in time the warm air from Muspelheim caused these tons of ice over the Well to transform into the living, sentient Ymir. Another being appeared from the ice, the enchanted cow Audumla. Audumla fed off the ice itself, and Ymir subsisted on the milk Audumla produced.Ymir was the progenitor of the entire race of Ice Giants as well as the all the Giants of Jotunheim (among them Storm Giants, Mountain Giants and Rime Giants) and most notably the Frost Giants. Although he differed considerably in appearance, Ymir and many of the first members of his race were also known as Ice Giants. Like the other Ice Giants, Ymir was covered with snow and ice, and constantly generated intense coldness from his body.
At some point before 10,000 BCE, humans began to worship Ymir and his first daughter as deities. Among these humans were the Vanir of Hyborean [Conan] Vanaheim people whose members would include Ulysses Bloodstone. **Note: I already did some work on this guy and can post it in the Other Characters thread. Bloodstone is soopar relevant to Origin Arc, I think.
The young god Odin and his brothers Vili and Ve fought a war with the Ice Giants and slew Ymir. This led the the Ice Giants along with the Giants of Jotunheim declaring war on the Asgardians for slaying their progenitor. Ymir, however, succeeded in regenerating himself. Odin created a chasm containing an interdimensional nexus through which Ymir's army plunged into Muspelheim, where the native [fire] demons took the Giants prisoners. Odin then entrapped Ymir himself within a circle of flame within a volcanic area. !!!!!
In recent times a member of the mystical cult called the Sons of Satannish used the so-called Spell of Fire and Ice to bring both Ymir and Surtur to Earth, where they began wreaking havoc. While Ymir attacked Wakanda, Surtur wreaked havoc in Antarctica. Doctor Strange transported Ymir to the South Pole right in front of Surtur just as both are about to strike, their blows cancel each other out causing both monsters to vanish causing a massive explosion. Earth's Sorcerer Supreme, Doctor Stephen Strange, used the Crystal of Conquest, which contained part of the mystical power of the demons known as Santannish and Mephisto, to transport Surtur and Ymir magically into each other's presence at the very instant they were lashing out with their weapons. Ymir and Surtur thus struck each other's weapons, creating a mystical "implosion" in which each being temporarily cancelled out the powers of the other, and each was returned to his home dimension, Surtur to Muspelheim and Ymir to Niffleheim.
Surtur Vs. Ymir [this bit may have occurred too late in the series for GRRM to have followed it, but it is still amazeballs.]:
Ymir once again is released from his eternal prison. Surtur disguised himself as Odin in a plan to destroy Asgard; he told Heimdall that Ragnarök was upon them and Ymir must be stopped. The warriors go to fight Ymir, while Odin transformed into Surtur, and fought Ymir. Surtur and Ymir locked in combat. To defeat them, Thor retrieved the Twilight Sword from the Sea of Eternal Night. Thor lights Twilight in the Eternal Flame which causes Odin’s control over Surtur to vanish. Surtur and Ymir fight over Twilight, and while they are distracted, Thor transports them both into the Sea of Eternal Night, where they will be frozen for all time.
to be cont.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 15, 2016 2:24:46 GMT
There are several dimensional portals between the mountains of Jotunheim and Svartalfheim and the mountains of Asgard, permitting easy passage by denizens of each realm. "Another unique feature of Asgard is the Cave of Time, an apparently natural phenomenon through which passage to other times is possible." BR and Bran on these? 2) Nidhogg, the winged dragon who gnaws on the roots of Yggdrasil from its lair in Niffleheim. 3) Fenris, the Wolf God, chained to a rock in Varenheim by an enchanted fetter. Fenris is prophecied to devour Odin during Ragnarok. Or... cold air in GRRMs world? It was said that millennia ago warm air from the realm of fire, Muspelheim, crossed a dimensional barrier into the location of the magical Well of Life. This is glorious Odin created a chasm containing an interdimensional nexus through which Ymir's army plunged into Muspelheim, where the native [fire] demons took the Giants prisoners. Odin then entrapped Ymir himself within a circle of flame within a volcanic area. !!!!! And come on, you made the rest up, it's too perfect.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 15, 2016 3:14:06 GMT
IKR??? Some of this I've touched on already, but much is new. And just, wow. A couple of things I wanted to touch on real quick-like from the Ymir tale. 1) Warm air from the realm of fire made its way to the Well of Life? Well of Life, kindof like the Womb of the World? That I suspect is a caldera - as in volcanic - lake? hmmmm. And then, we have Ymir being nourished by milk from a magic cow that fed on the ice. Two thoughts: magic cow/Well of Life, Lamb Men/Womb of World; also, the Milkwater - formed at the foot of a glacier in the Frostfangs. What do glaciers do? They calve. 2) I don't think I posted my workup about Satannish here or anywhere, but this might be interesting to some. Satannish is a very powerful demon, fathered by none other than old Dormammu who I covered in the Strange arc. (IIRC that was a Marvel retcon, but whatever.) Satannish started out as a ball of malevolent energy that eventually evolved into an actual entity - an entity that grows in power proportionally to the worship he receives from his followers. What's funny though is that he's also an entity that is 1) green, 2) horned, and 3) has a face in his stomach. Like, literally, a FACE, in his TRUNK. He also has a specific band of groupies known as the Sons of Satannish - they are powerful sorcerers devoted to worship of the demon, with sortof a Mephistopheles thing going on; they give Satannish their eternal souls, he gives them superpowers. Neat. Anyway, what I really dug about this side plot was that it falls in line with the idea of "dark greenseers" or "corrupted tree magic" that a few people embrace - like there was a schism or falling out in whatever order of the CotF or greenseers, and one faction went to the dark side and now this cult of green men are hanging out on the Isle of Faces. Green, horned evil overlord with a freaking face in his gut being worshipped by Green Men who carve faces into frigging trees. Rather coinkydinkal, if you ask me. /random
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Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 15, 2016 3:29:10 GMT
First of all - heh I knew the Milkwater had to mean something - if only a nod to the source material. 1) Warm air from the realm of fire made its way to the Well of Life? Well of Life, kindof like the Womb of the World? That I suspect is a caldera - as in volcanic - lake? hmmmm. And then, we have Ymir being nourished by milk from a magic cow that fed on the ice. Two thoughts: magic cow/Well of Life, Lamb Men/Womb of World; also, the Milkwater - formed at the foot of a glacier in the Frostfangs. What do glaciers do? They calve. We've got a counterpart to the womb of the world - the Winterfell Heart Tree Pool. Except that water is cold, in contrast to all the hot springs around it. And it's also associated with pregnancy.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 15, 2016 13:49:08 GMT
We've got a counterpart to the womb of the world - the Winterfell Heart Tree Pool. Except that water is cold, in contrast to all the hot springs around it. And it's also associated with pregnancy. Ahhh, of course! Didn't even consider that, but yes...Well of Life, pregnant woman emerging, wells = deep, dark, cold. Bonus points if it turns out that the Heart Pool and WotW are somehow connected underground or have a shared source...like a volcano. SWEET. I want to get back to the Bifrost and the general structure of Asgard next. This may be spotty as I have kids home with me for three days, but I will dump when I can. Or you guys can, this is a group effort here!
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Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 15, 2016 13:59:01 GMT
Niffleheim, realm of the dead - includes Hel and Valhalla Bonetown/Cannibal Sands/Grey Waste/Dry Deep/Bleeding Sea/Five Forts down to CARCOSA the white city and it's Sorceror Lord. /random
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Post by min on Aug 16, 2016 7:21:24 GMT
In recent times a member of the mystical cult called the Sons of Satannish used the so-called Spell of Fire and Ice to bring both Ymir and Surtur to Earth, I don't think I posted my workup about Satannish here or anywhere, but this might be interesting to some. Satannish is a very powerful demon, fathered by none other than old Dormammu who I covered in the Strange arc. (IIRC that was a Marvel retcon, but whatever.) Satannish started out as a ball of malevolent energy that eventually evolved into an actual entity - an entity that grows in power proportionally to the worship he receives from his followers. What's funny though is that he's also an entity that is 1) green, 2) horned, and 3) has a face in his stomach. Like, literally, a FACE, in his TRUNK. He also has a specific band of groupies known as the Sons of Satannish - they are powerful sorcerers devoted to worship of the demon, with sortof a Mephistopheles thing going on; they give Satannish their eternal souls, he gives them superpowers. Neat. Anyway, what I really dug about this side plot was that it falls in line with the idea of "dark greenseers" or "corrupted tree magic" that a few people embrace - like there was a schism or falling out in whatever order of the CotF or greenseers, and one faction went to the dark side and now this cult of green men are hanging out on the Isle of Faces. Green, horned evil overlord with a freaking face in his gut being worshipped by Green Men who carve faces into frigging trees. Rather coinkydinkal, if you ask me. /random This feels so much like Euron to me! Aeron calls Euron a demon in human skin. The image of Satannish with the face in his stomach is interesting because I've always had the impression that something else occupies Euron's skin at various times. Something that becomes stronger with sorcery and the sacrifice of holy blood, feeding on death (face carved on the stomach). This would seem to point to schism within the greenseers. I wonder if the God's Eye with it's sentinel trees and soldier pines is place of imprisonment; meant to keep something in rather than keep something out or Ymir and his eternal prison. The sentinel trees and soldier pines or green men arrayed around the prisoner to prevent a jailbreak. The God's Eye; the high holy place? Where holy blood was spilled? It might also be a cauldera, or super volcano. .
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 28, 2016 20:14:11 GMT
Brilliant! I'll be back later to actually comment
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 28, 2016 20:25:58 GMT
I'll be back later to actually comment I'll be back later to actually finish it.
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Post by jnr on Aug 28, 2016 21:38:22 GMT
Yeah, Ymir and Surtur didn't get along all that well. But I still maintain this is the true song of ice and fire: Also, I think from now on whenever I agree with anyone, on any topic from any site, I will respond:
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 28, 2016 21:41:23 GMT
Also, I think from now on whenever I agree with anyone, on any topic from any site, I will respond: Thy words ring with truth! Oh, you absolutely should. In fact, I think everyone should go around speaking like Asgardian deities.
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Post by jnr on Aug 28, 2016 23:01:46 GMT
I think everyone should go around speaking like Asgardian deities. So spake Some Pig No Doubt! This JNR swears!
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 28, 2016 23:33:27 GMT
By the power of Pork, thus shall it be done!!
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