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Post by Melifeather on Aug 7, 2016 15:38:27 GMT
Ned's parallel is Samwell Tarly Sam isn't Gilly's son's true father. The inversion to this would be that Ned is Wylla's son's father.
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Post by min on Nov 14, 2016 17:43:09 GMT
Is there an inversion between Myrcella and Lyanna?
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Post by Melifeather on Nov 14, 2016 20:44:24 GMT
Is there an inversion between Myrcella and Lyanna? Yes. Even though I believe the Martells and Lannisters have traded places, GRRM calls Myrcella "little Myrcella" in The Queenmaker chapter, so kind of like saying "Cersei"...it's hard to explain my thoughts but "little Myrcella" symbolizes the marriage contract between the throne and Dorne, whereas Lyanna represented the marriage contract between the Starks and the "possible" throne of Robert Baratheon. Arianne was trying to crown Myrcella, whereas Cersei was trying to prevent Lyanna from being crowned.
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Post by Melifeather on Mar 30, 2017 12:07:05 GMT
I anticipate a showdown between a dragonlord and a king in the north, but this time the king won't kneel, but the physical location of the showdown will occur south of the Trident versus north of it. Credit for this idea goes to SomePig.
I actually don't expect Dany to come to Westeros, at least not as the dragonlord. That part will be reprised by Victarion as the new Aegon the Conqueror, except he'll arrive as if he's a Blackfyre pretender. A Blackfyre that first succeeds in securing dragons and then using dragons to take the Iron Throne, succeeding where every Blackfyre before him failed, but then losing to the King in the North in a reversal of Aegon the Conqueror's defeat of Torrhen. Expect bloodshed since the face-off would be opposite of Torrhen, and quite possibly with Bran via the weirwoods killing the dragons much like Torrhen's bastard brother Brandon wanted to do with weirwood arrows.
edited to add: if the story of ice and fire were a circle, half of the past has been revealed to us, and the other half is the current story. The future can be guessed at pretty accurately by reversing what we know happened in the past, and the past events that we haven't yet been privy to can also be guessed at by examining the current story and reversing the story line. Some examples would be the story of how the Lord of Winterfell joined forces with the King Beyond the Wall to defeat the Nights King. I expect the current story to reverse this. Jon, as Nights King will defeat the Lord of Winterfell (Ramsay) who has captured the King Beyond the Wall.
The reversals make me wonder if the original Nights King was a Bolton since Ramsay Bolton is currently Lord of Winterfell. Jon as Nights King will lead the army of the dead to sweep down upon Westeros to confront Victarion the dragon rider. Bran's "weirwood arrows" are more metaphorical than literal. It's his manipulations via the weirwoods which have placed the players where they need to be in order to kill the dragonlord and reverse the wheel of time and the major events.
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Post by Melifeather on Mar 30, 2017 12:09:40 GMT
To clarify I make my comparisons geographically as well as finding the parallels. This theory began with the idea of opposites and mirrored reflections, and that the warding on the Wall affects the characters by swapping their fates on the wheel of time, therefore when someone is said to be "reborn" they will relive similar circumstances of what has occurred in the past to someone else, but with an opposite outcome.
First the geographical aspect. Imagine there is a giant mirror upon the entire length of the Wall reflecting all of Westeros, and your viewpoint would be the crow's eye view much like when Bran saw his family with his mom on a ship and his dad and sisters on their way to Kings Landing. Before getting tied up too much within that imagery, let's imagine we're positioned south of Dorne facing north and we can see all the way to the Wall. Now gaze into the looking glass and notice how Westeros looks upside down in the mirror. The south is now the north, the north being closest to the mirror is now the south. Lastly, Patchface says we're upside down, so flip Westeros like turning over a rock so that west is now east. Are you still with me? Here are a few geographical examples. Looking in the mirror the Iron Islands appear to be positioned where Dragonstone was, and Casterly Rock now sits where Dorne once was. At the same time they've all moved north. To help understand what I mean by this let's take Asha as our example. She's a princess from the Iron Islands, the royal Greyjoy family. Recall that in the looking glass the Iron Islands look like they're in the location where Dragonstone used to be, so the Greyjoys will live out the same circumstances that the Targaryens did in the past, but will experience opposite outcomes. Asha's parallels are Rhaella and Rhaenyra... basically any female Targaryen that would have made a better ruler than her male heir counterparts. Physically her geographic location is in the north at Deepwood Mott, but she's reliving Rhaella's life, which suggests that even though Asha is married to an old man that she doesn't love like Rhaella was, she has a youthful, smooth-faced lover named Qarl the Maid. Using this information I suspect that Rhaella also had a lover, but he was the opposite of Qarl: an older and hairier version. Jeor Mormont perhaps? So even though The Runaway Bride chapter may make some readers hope that they will find clues about Lyanna, recall that Rhaella "ran away" from Kings Landing to Dragonstone, later giving birth to Daenerys, or so we're told, but perhaps Asha's "kidnapping" of Lady Glover and her children is closer to the truth?
Sorry to ramble off, but I felt I should interject what I currently believe: that while you can find multiple parallels between several characters, the parallels that are meant to give us clues to the backstory are the geographical ones reflected through Alice's Lookingglass.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Mar 31, 2017 3:46:37 GMT
The reversals make me wonder if the original Nights King was a Bolton since Ramsay Bolton is currently Lord of Winterfell. Interesting idea - I wondered a while back if perhaps this may have in fact been a Snowbowl - or a battle between the Stark in Winterfell and his 'brother', Brandon Snow (if you believe Old Nan)...the "Stark" from the wrong side of the blanket, now on the Wall, who became the NK. Despite his legitimization, Ramsay is still technically a Snow, and Jon would be (will be?) the "Stark in Winterfell" partnering with the King Beyond the Wall. Due to the shared Snow surname, you *could* *sorta* consider them to be brothers...especially, say, after a thousand years had passed and the written legend had combined with the singers' tales to make them into one.
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Post by Melifeather on Mar 31, 2017 10:52:36 GMT
The reversals make me wonder if the original Nights King was a Bolton since Ramsay Bolton is currently Lord of Winterfell. Interesting idea - I wondered a while back if perhaps this may have in fact been a Snowbowl - or a battle between the Stark in Winterfell and his 'brother', Brandon Snow (if you believe Old Nan)...the "Stark" from the wrong side of the blanket, now on the Wall, who became the NK. Despite his legitimization, Ramsay is still technically a Snow, and Jon would be (will be?) the "Stark in Winterfell" partnering with the King Beyond the Wall. Due to the shared Snow surname, you *could* *sorta* consider them to be brothers...especially, say, after a thousand years had passed and the written legend had combined with the singers' tales to make them into one. I see your point. If they are Snow brothers now, were they Stark brothers then, so no Bolton?
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Post by Melifeather on Mar 31, 2017 11:47:20 GMT
Heresy is currently discussing Old Nan's stories again, and JNR brought up how the story about the man being held prisoner in a castle by an evil giant was about Arya, which made me think the Night's King story is about Jon, so maybe ALL of Old Nan's stories are about the Stark children's futures? Bran is the Last Hero seeking out the Children with his dog.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Mar 31, 2017 15:00:36 GMT
I scanned through that Heresy last night - re: the castle and the giants, this is where Marvel comes in, IMO. I'm fairly certain that Harrenhal is modeled after the evil dark castle of Karnilla the Norn Queen, a castle that also happens to be guarded by giants. If they are Snow brothers now, were they Stark brothers then, so no Bolton? Not necessarily - it could be a Bolton, a bastard of Bolton with the surname Snow. If you think about the current situation in terms of historical record, a showdown between Ramsay Snow-Bolton and Jon Snow-Stark could eventually be twisted up over hundreds of years (like a game of telephone) to end up being a "battle of brothers". In fact, with regard to inversions/parallels/the wheel turning round, I do think that this is the modern twist on the old story - the Stark King of Winter at the WALL takes down his Snow "brother" at Winterfell. Anyway, with regard to the original NK story though, I'm more inclined to believe Old Nan and say that the NK was in fact a Stark...a bastard Stark, perhaps named Brandon, reared in Winterfell before taking the black. However, if in the past a bastard Stark (a Snow) turned to the dark side, are we seeing the inverse now, with the bastard Stark being the good guy, or will Jon take a turn for the worse? The NK joined in unholy union with his bride of ice and betrayed his oath; Jon is currently parked at the Wall with his bride of fire - one who will most likely 'take his seed/take his soul' when she resurrects him in Winds (probably). What will he become then?
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Post by Melifeather on Mar 31, 2017 17:30:29 GMT
I scanned through that Heresy last night - re: the castle and the giants, this is where Marvel comes in, IMO. I'm fairly certain that Harrenhal is modeled after the evil dark castle of Karnilla the Norn Queen, a castle that also happens to be guarded by giants. If they are Snow brothers now, were they Stark brothers then, so no Bolton? Not necessarily - it could be a Bolton, a bastard of Bolton with the surname Snow. If you think about the current situation in terms of historical record, a showdown between Ramsay Snow-Bolton and Jon Snow-Stark could eventually be twisted up over hundreds of years (like a game of telephone) to end up being a "battle of brothers". In fact, with regard to inversions/parallels/the wheel turning round, I do think that this is the modern twist on the old story - the Stark King of Winter at the WALL takes down his Snow "brother" at Winterfell. Anyway, with regard to the original NK story though, I'm more inclined to believe Old Nan and say that the NK was in fact a Stark...a bastard Stark, perhaps named Brandon, reared in Winterfell before taking the black. However, if in the past a bastard Stark (a Snow) turned to the dark side, are we seeing the inverse now, with the bastard Stark being the good guy, or will Jon take a turn for the worse? The NK joined in unholy union with his bride of ice and betrayed his oath; Jon is currently parked at the Wall with his bride of fire - one who will most likely 'take his seed/take his soul' when she resurrects him in Winds (probably). What will he become then? If Old Nan's tales are about the Stark children now then the Stark Night's King is about Jon, therefore it could have been a Snow-Bolton Night's King in the long-ago past with a legitimized Snow-Stark bastard as the Lord of Winterfell.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Mar 31, 2017 17:45:28 GMT
Very possible! I won't rule it out - it would be a straightforward parallel to the current scenario, just with locations inverted.
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Post by Melifeather on Mar 31, 2017 19:56:18 GMT
If there was a legitimized Snow-Stark bastard that became Lord of Winterfell, wouldn't that place him in that novella that we've heard about, but isn't published yet, The She-Wolves of Winterfell?
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Mar 31, 2017 20:10:21 GMT
I thought the She-Wolves was after the time of Cregan Stark? That would be way, way past the time of the NK.
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Post by Melifeather on Mar 31, 2017 21:23:11 GMT
I thought the She-Wolves was after the time of Cregan Stark? That would be way, way past the time of the NK. CREGAN! That's it! I understand that the timeline doesn't fit, but it just made me think of it since there was no male heir, and it was likely the same deal during the time of the Night's King...just a bit of the wheel cycling around. I think the wheel of time has been at play ever since the Wall went up so every so often the Starks don't have an male heir and have to legitimize a bastard. Of course, since it's now going in reverse Jon doesn't get to be legitimized, Ramsay was, the Snow-Bolton was, so it makes sense then that once upon a time the legendary Nights Kind was a Snow-Bolton bastard while the Lord of Winterfell was a legitimized Snow-Stark bastard.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Mar 31, 2017 22:15:01 GMT
I understand that the timeline doesn't fit, but it just made me think of it since there was no male heir I think the difference is that while the She-Wolves tales is going to talk about a Stark succession crisis (it actually begins with Beron Stark, who is like Cregan's great-grandson or something), it was mainly over claims by rival family members - like we see in House Baratheon after Robert dies - and not due to a lack of a male heir....Beron had a few sons to lay claim to Winterfell, with the women pushing them to go for it. I think. Anyway, I see your point...and interesting, because if you recall, we've seen that legitimized bastard Stark thing before when the line was in peril: Bael the Bard's son with the daughter of Winterfell, remember? If the tale is to be believed, Brandon the Daughterless had no sons, so the babe that his blue rose bore in the crypts went on to become the Lord of Winterfell! So yeah, very possible that this legitimization has been done before. (That being said, I still think that the NK might have been a Stark bastard son at the Wall, just like Jon Snow today.)
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