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Post by wolfmaid7 on Aug 26, 2016 19:36:56 GMT
Well I thought the OP at Westeros was great! But how strange that the server goes down whenever this stuff is posted. Given the amount of press it gets; could it be that so many people still want answers; it can't handle the traffic. LOL It just went up,so we will see how long this lasts.Fingers cross.
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Post by ac on Aug 26, 2016 19:39:56 GMT
I should rephrase that its more likely to get discussed here vs Westeros.org...Already for some reason the site has gone down and i told Snowfyre this and it has happened like clockwork everytime.Since this project started it has been one techinical problem after another which has put it off for months.People can't posts regarding it.Everything has been great for months.The Wrap up thread is up and problems.I told Snowy to observe this anytime i put up threads regarding this project watch Westeros.org have techical difficulties. Looks like it is back up now, at least the wiki. Wanna share a link?
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Post by min on Aug 26, 2016 19:42:45 GMT
Yeah it is really funny that no one thinks that Jon isn't Ned's and i have a theory on that.It favors any theory to be honest that doesn't have Ned as daddy.This is never a question because to much other stuff is going on so no buddy ever wonders.Why would Ned,honorable Ned lie? They believe it because it humanizes Ned and shows that he ain't all that perfect.Ned is a person in authority and if he says so,it is so. Jon looks so much like Ned so that creates a blind spot to that type of thing. It's very possible that the Stark look comes from Lyanna and Jon is Ned's blood through her. There are plenty said about sex and drunkenness and not remembering afterwards. It's not out of the question that Robert doesn't remember pressing his attention on Lyanna at the Tourney and being in a fog about it the morning after. Cersei attests to that on her wedding night. He was a man of great appetites, to quote Ned. So this could be the basis for a false accusation against Rhaegar. Somebody talks, somebody always talks or witnesses something. Although if this is true; you have to wonder why Ned doesn't feel any animosity towards Robert. Lyanna is alive when Ned finds her and if she is close to death her pleadings may having been as confusing as Hoster Tully's were to Cat on his death bed. Ned may not know who Jon's father is if Jon is indeed Lyanna's child and not his own. He must know something around the circumstances of her disappearance to absolve Rhaegar and Arthur. I'm still not even sure where he finds her or if Jon is with her. All we know is that Jon was nursed by Wylla, a wet nurse at Starfall. Since Ned doesn't ask Arthur about Lyanna either; what is Ned's purpose in the South. Is he there to collect Jon?
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Post by min on Aug 26, 2016 19:47:44 GMT
This was a series of unfortunate events that broke an already tense situation in the Kingdom with the mistakes of kids thrown in the mix. Also very probable.
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Post by wolfmaid7 on Aug 26, 2016 19:50:04 GMT
OK, so what would this misdirect add to the story. I mean it is common knowledge that Viserys and Dany escape, why would it matter whether from DS or somewhere else? It would matter because that would mean Dany's father isn't Aerys or Dany's parents aren't Aerys and Rhaella. I've toyed with this idea too but if Lyanna had already flowered wouldn't she have been married to Robert by then. By the time of Harrenhal he's been Lord of Storm's End for 3 years (give or take) and it would be time to get working on producing an heir. Not neccessarily especially if the plan was to seat Robert on the throne WITH Lyanna.Their wedding would be somethig the Kingdom cold celebrate.They get married when she flowered the Targs get booted out and they are just two people who moved into the palace taking over.This way with their marriage and coronation so to speak it would be something to bring the kingdom together after shit hit the fan.
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Post by ac on Aug 26, 2016 19:53:51 GMT
Since Ned doesn't ask Arthur about Lyanna either; what is Ned's purpose in the South. Is he there to collect Jon? My feeling is that, whatever the reason he is there, it is based on info from Ethan Glover. Maybe something revealed by Aerys when they arrived with Brandon to confront Rhaegar.
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Post by min on Aug 26, 2016 19:58:58 GMT
My feeling is that, whatever the reason he is there, it is based on info from Ethan Glover. Maybe something revealed by Aerys when they arrived with Brandon to confront Rhaegar. Oh yah! There's continuity between Brandon and Ned with Ethan Glover and what he knew. I wonder what he knew. Which means Varys knows something.
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Post by ac on Aug 26, 2016 20:08:57 GMT
I've toyed with this idea too but if Lyanna had already flowered wouldn't she have been married to Robert by then. By the time of Harrenhal he's been Lord of Storm's End for 3 years (give or take) and it would be time to get working on producing an heir. Not neccessarily especially if the plan was to seat Robert on the throne WITH Lyanna.Their wedding would be somethig the Kingdom cold celebrate.They get married when she flowered the Targs get booted out and they are just two people who moved into the palace taking over.This way with their marriage and coronation so to speak it would be something to bring the kingdom together after shit hit the fan. I find it hard to believe that there was a plan to put Robert on the IT then. Get rid of Aerys and replace him with Rhaegar sure but not a full-on wipeout of the Targs.
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Post by ac on Aug 26, 2016 20:12:36 GMT
My feeling is that, whatever the reason he is there, it is based on info from Ethan Glover. Maybe something revealed by Aerys when they arrived with Brandon to confront Rhaegar. Oh yah! There's continuity between Brandon and Ned with Ethan Glover and what he knew. I wonder what he knew. Which means Varys knows something. And most likely Jamie too. Even up until now we must have learned more about Aerys (and how horrible he was) from Jamie than anyone else. I wonder if we'll ever get a reason for Ethan's miraculous survival.
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Post by wolfmaid7 on Aug 26, 2016 20:30:40 GMT
I've toyed with this idea too but if Lyanna had already flowered wouldn't she have been married to Robert by then. By the time of Harrenhal he's been Lord of Storm's End for 3 years (give or take) and it would be time to get working on producing an heir. Not neccessarily especially if the plan was to seat Robert on the throne WITH Lyanna.Their wedding would be somethig the Kingdom cold celebrate.They get married when she flowered the Targs get booted out and they are just two people who moved into the palace taking over.This way with their marriage and coronation so to speak it would be something to bring the kingdom together after shit hit the fan. I find it hard to believe that there was a plan to put Robert on the IT then. Get rid of Aerys and replace him with Rhaegar sure but not a full-on wipeout of the Targs. But that was the plan per Ned.He said: 1. “Fifteen years past, when they had ridden forth to win a throne, the Lord of Storm’s End had been clean-shaven, clear-eyed, and muscled like a maiden’s fantasy…In those days, the smell of leather and blood had clung to him like perfume. Now it was perfume that clung to him like perfume, and he had a girth to match his height…A beard as coarse and black as iron wire covered his jaw to hide his double chin and the sag of the royal jowls, but nothing could hide his stomach or the dark circles under his eyes.” 2. Robert, I ask you, what did we rise against Aerys Targaryen for, if not to put an end to the murder of children?” “To put an end to Targaryens!” the king growled. Yeah Robert was a bit pissed off but I doubt the plan was to wipe out the Targs,they just didnt want them on the throne per Ned that was the plan.
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Post by ac on Aug 26, 2016 20:56:16 GMT
I find it hard to believe that there was a plan to put Robert on the IT then. Get rid of Aerys and replace him with Rhaegar sure but not a full-on wipeout of the Targs. But that was the plan per Ned.He said: 1. “Fifteen years past, when they had ridden forth to win a throne, the Lord of Storm’s End had been clean-shaven, clear-eyed, and muscled like a maiden’s fantasy…In those days, the smell of leather and blood had clung to him like perfume. Now it was perfume that clung to him like perfume, and he had a girth to match his height…A beard as coarse and black as iron wire covered his jaw to hide his double chin and the sag of the royal jowls, but nothing could hide his stomach or the dark circles under his eyes.” 2. Robert, I ask you, what did we rise against Aerys Targaryen for, if not to put an end to the murder of children?” “To put an end to Targaryens!” the king growled. Yeah Robert was a bit pissed off but I doubt the plan was to wipe out the Targs,they just didnt want them on the throne per Ned that was the plan. Right, but only after something bad had happened to Lyanna (possibly kidnap or rape), Brandon was tortured and strangled and Rickard cooked inside his own armour. Not to mention the deaths of Brandon's friends and there fathers or Aerys' request that Jon Arryn execute Robert and Ned. Before Harrenhal there is nothing to suggest that the Starks or Baratheons had beef with the Targs, and especially Rhaegar.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 26, 2016 23:12:01 GMT
who would benefit from handing over Brandon and Rickard to Aerys? Welp. Just had a thought. Ned benefits by becoming the Lord of Winterfell. But I'm not sure that Ned was meant to be the surviving Stark. If it weren't for Howland Reed... Which leaves Benjen, the Stark left in Winterfell. Or was he? We still don't know what made him join the NW. Did he abandon his post? Was he drawn into some sort of plot to make him Lord of Winterfell, but Ned survived? Thinking out loud. So what I'm thinking is that this was a long con, to get a particular person in charge of Winterfell in preparation for the Winter/Long Night v 2.0. If this is about preparing for the Others, then a bastard is needed to be sent to the Wall.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 26, 2016 23:15:44 GMT
Never discussed? Why not? If we should be discussing them; let's discuss them. Let's start with Brandon's mysterious errand. He went off somewhere and was given information (true or false) about Lyanna. This put Brandon directly into Mad Aerys hands; followed by Rickard. - who would benefit from handing over Brandon and Rickard to Aerys? - was the errand calculated to remove the Starks; to start a war? - because the next thing that happens is that Aerys demands that Robert and Ned are turned over to him? - if Rhaegar was falsely accused; who would benefit from pitting Rhaegar against the North? ETA: This quote from Elder Brother to Brienne VII in FfC: "When I died in the Battle of Trident I fought for Prince Rhaegar, though he never knew my name. I could not tell you why, save that the lord I served served a lord who served a lord who had decided to support the dragon rather than the stag. Had he decided elsewise, I might have been on the other side of the river. The battle was a bloody thing. The singers would have us believe it was all Rhaegar and Robert struggling in the stream for a woman both of them claimed to love, but I assure you, other men were fighting too, and I was one." I should rephrase that its more likely to get discussed here vs Westeros.org...Already for some reason the site has gone down and i told Snowfyre this and it has happened like clockwork everytime.Since this project started it has been one techinical problem after another which has put it off for months.People can't posts regarding it.Everything has been great for months.The Wrap up thread is up and problems.I told Snowy to observe this anytime i put up threads regarding this project watch Westeros.org have techical difficulties. Not to mention it is not a place to have any real discource about Jon's parentage if its other than RLJ. The timing was suspicious.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 27, 2016 0:11:22 GMT
if Rhaegar was falsely accused; who would benefit from pitting Rhaegar against the North? My personal opinion is Aerys. Driving a wedge between Rhaegar and the Starks / Baratheons would help keep Rhaegar's ambitions in check. And he may not have considered it would start a war. As has been pointed out, Brandon's reaction was a bit OTT. Also, and of course this complete speculation, but if Lyanna's kidnappers were impersonating Rhaegar and his crew then Aerys is in about the best position there is to be able to pull that off (not suggesting he did the dead personally). My thoughts it was nobody,a decoy in the form of a maidservant.Intent,to give false info to make people believe the Queen was heading to DS.Plus there's no reason to go through that for to go the DS which is the very first place anyone would and did look anyway.You only do that for misdirection.Make them believe there on DS when really they are not. OK, so what would this misdirect add to the story. I mean it is common knowledge that Viserys and Dany escape, why would it matter whether from DS or somewhere else? So what is the timeline? I think it starts at Harrenhall where she concieved.By the time she "disapears" she was already preggers. I've toyed with this idea too but if Lyanna had already flowered wouldn't she have been married to Robert by then. By the time of Harrenhal he's been Lord of Storm's End for 3 years (give or take) and it would be time to get working on producing an heir. Tywin quit his position as Hand and left Kings Landing after Jaime's investiture into the Kingsguard at Harrenhal. He was already angry about Aerys refusal to marry Rhaegar to Cersei especially after saying that dragons didn't marry their servants. He viewed the appointment as if Jaime was Aerys's hostage. Tywin destroys people who mock or slight him as evidenced by his treatment of the Tarbecks and Reynes. In my opinion Tywin had the most to gain by the fall of House Targaryens and he had the biggest grudge to fuel his revenge.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 27, 2016 0:17:57 GMT
I find it hard to believe that there was a plan to put Robert on the IT then. Get rid of Aerys and replace him with Rhaegar sure but not a full-on wipeout of the Targs. But that was the plan per Ned.He said: 1. “Fifteen years past, when they had ridden forth to win a throne, the Lord of Storm’s End had been clean-shaven, clear-eyed, and muscled like a maiden’s fantasy…In those days, the smell of leather and blood had clung to him like perfume. Now it was perfume that clung to him like perfume, and he had a girth to match his height…A beard as coarse and black as iron wire covered his jaw to hide his double chin and the sag of the royal jowls, but nothing could hide his stomach or the dark circles under his eyes.” 2. Robert, I ask you, what did we rise against Aerys Targaryen for, if not to put an end to the murder of children?” “To put an end to Targaryens!” the king growled. Yeah Robert was a bit pissed off but I doubt the plan was to wipe out the Targs,they just didnt want them on the throne per Ned that was the plan. And what children were killed prior to the Rebellion?
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