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Post by min on Oct 18, 2016 8:02:09 GMT
Born in milk, die in milk:
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Oct 18, 2016 13:32:55 GMT
Would anyone object to starting a new spoiler-free WW thread for future eps and whatnot, and making this one a discussion for already-aired eps for those up to speed? I am dying with these spoiler tags here, particularly with quoting. I can't keep up with who said what anymore. Anyway...back to this observation: Seems to me that Ed Harris is Ford's old partner Arnold? "30 years" seems like the clue there. I agree that he could be a candidate for Arnold...especially since the milk drinker was shouting for Arnold...wasn't he indicating that his actions were due to Arnold? If this is the case, is it possible that the MiB is "tweaking" some of the older/original hosts like Delores to alter their programming/insert a virus/etc? We have that narrative sequence at her house where he shows up to drag her into the barn for some unknown reason - he's got that big scalping knife, but so far we have no indication that he's taken her skullcap at any point...she hasn't been returned in an injured state or consigned to the repair heap like Teddy that we know of. It's almost like the MiB is trying to DO something with her, to make her change. I wonder if he was her creator, and she holds some kind of code secret. The idea of him being Arnold makes sense, though - he can't be killed by a host, the 30 years thing, "that gentleman can do whatever he wants", etc. Regarding religion: Did any of you catch in E3 the two mentions of God by the hosts? A couple of "if there is a god, he wouldn't allow this" or something to that effect. There was some obvious confusion on the part of the recipient hearing it, but then it cleared up almost instantaneously. So, Ford is introducing it via worm in the programming - he's going to create religion in the park by making the idea go viral on its own. Brilliant.
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Post by ac on Oct 18, 2016 14:09:15 GMT
JJ Abrams show introduces mystery map, hmmm.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Oct 18, 2016 14:14:30 GMT
Did any of you catch in E3 the two mentions of God by the hosts? A couple of "if there is a god, he wouldn't allow this" or something to that effect. There was some obvious confusion on the part of the recipient hearing it, but then it cleared up almost instantaneously. So, Ford is introducing it via worm in the programming - he's going to create religion in the park by making the idea go viral on its own. Brilliant. YES.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Oct 18, 2016 14:16:28 GMT
JJ Abrams show introduces mystery map, hmmm. I wonder how this fits in with the maze? Could be related. Anyone ever see those maps of "beneath Disneyland"? This reminds me of that.
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Post by Melifeather on Oct 18, 2016 14:21:02 GMT
Regarding Some Pig's comments about religion:
What you suggest seems a deliberate "infection" by Ford. Introducing self-awareness and memories might cause some of the hosts to turn to religion.
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Post by ac on Oct 18, 2016 14:26:01 GMT
JJ Abrams show introduces mystery map, hmmm. I wonder how this fits in with the maze? Could be related. Anyone ever see those maps of "beneath Disneyland"? This reminds me of that. This one is from Lost, the show that made me hugely wary of committing to watching a JJ Abrams show, and caused a huge amount of fan speculation. In the end we were just left with a million open questions and this map was basically never mentioned or seen again!
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Post by Weasel Pie on Oct 18, 2016 14:35:55 GMT
This one is from Lost, the show that made me hugely wary of committing to watching a JJ Abrams show, and caused a huge amount of fan speculation. In the end we were just left with a million open questions and this map was basically never mentioned or seen again! I feel your pain, that was one of the worst show-experiences ever.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Oct 18, 2016 14:38:16 GMT
What you suggest seems a deliberate "infection" by Ford. Introducing self-awareness and memories might cause some of the hosts to turn to religion. Exactly! If they become self-aware sentient beings, the next step is a superstructure that they can use to explain origin, give meaning to life, etc. The only issue is, why would FORD be introducing that? He's the one who seems intent on keeping them sub-human, reminding the techs that they don't feel so there's no need to show them human emotion. So that begs the question, is the religion simply being used for control purposes and not any type of higher mysteries thing? And would Bernard be the one working surreptitiously to make them more human, or would that be...someone else with a vested interest? I'll have to watch the scenes showing the cross again - I'm wondering if Ford didn't deliberately put that there, he just FOUND it and is now trying to do something about it. Remember how he said that whispered words can change lives, and bring chaos? Then, suddenly Delores' dad is spouting off about violent delights having violent ends. Hmmmm.
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Post by ac on Oct 18, 2016 14:44:55 GMT
What you suggest seems a deliberate "infection" by Ford. Introducing self-awareness and memories might cause some of the hosts to turn to religion. Exactly! If they become self-aware sentient beings, the next step is a superstructure that they can use to explain origin, give meaning to life, etc. The only issue is, why would FORD be introducing that? He's the one who seems intent on keeping them sub-human, reminding the techs that they don't feel so there's no need to show them human emotion. So that begs the question, is the religion simply being used for control purposes and not any type of higher mysteries thing? And would Bernard be the one working surreptitiously to make them more human, or would that be...someone else with a vested interest? The two possibilities I see are that either Ford is positioning himself to be the hosts' God or he is lying about Arnold's ambition and that in reality their roles were reversed.
And I suppose these two are not mutually exclusive either.
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Post by ac on Oct 18, 2016 14:49:06 GMT
Would anyone object to starting a new spoiler-free WW thread for future eps and whatnot, and making this one a discussion for already-aired eps for those up to speed? I am dying with these spoiler tags here, particularly with quoting. I can't keep up with who said what anymore. Something like that makes sense to me. The spoiler tags are getting crazy. Maybe someone should buy Westworld.org
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Oct 18, 2016 14:56:12 GMT
he two possibilities I see are that either Ford is positioning himself to be the hosts' God or he is lying about Arnold's ambition and that in reality their roles were reversed. I don't think he's lying....and I believe this may be where the Man in Black comes in to play. A quick passage from a recap that sums things up far better than I can: There’s a noteworthy hole in Robert Ford’s story about his former partner, the mysterious Arnold. We know that he was there when Westworld was in its infancy and we know that he was quietly erased from the park’s history by the suits and we know that he died. But as Anthony Hopkins regales us with tales of the park’s early days, he doesn’t explain the cause of death. He doesn’t dwell on what actually went down with his partner-in-robotics. Although he does suggest that Arnold wouldn’t have been on board with their work becoming the basis for a lurid theme park.
With that in mind, consider Ford’s warnings to Bernard. It sounds like Arnold stopped viewing their creations as machines, artificial constructs built in labs and brought to simulated life with lines of code. He wanted to give their creations life, to offer them a thought process powered by a “God”, a “bicameral mind” that would eventually transform into something resembling actual consciousness. We’ll touch more on the bicameral mind in a bit, because the other big takeaway from this big conversation is that Bernard’s secret meetings with Dolores appear to be doing exactly what Arnold wanted to do so many years ago. Bernard has unwittingly (or wittingly?) picked up Arnold’s thread.
Of course, the fact that the details of Arnold’s actual fate remain unrevealed is telling. Even if he’s not around, his ghost (figuratively speaking) certainly is. He may very well be haunting the park, the ghost in the machine whose ill-fated work from decades ago has been re-activated by a grieving father. Remember how the pilot mentioned a park failure from thirty years earlier? Could this be the event that killed Arnold, that forced Ford and the others to lock down his work for good?It's possible that the "ghost in the machine" is the MiB. If he needs to get to the center of the maze, perhaps that's the home of the Godhead, so to speak. I'm also wondering if Bernard is actively working with Arnold (or Arnold's remnant/alter ego/whatever, the MiB. Their mutual interest in Dolores tells me "maybe".
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Post by min on Oct 18, 2016 15:08:32 GMT
I don't mind posting without the spoiler tag since the thread is already flagged with a spoiler designation.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Oct 18, 2016 15:31:11 GMT
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Post by Melifeather on Oct 18, 2016 15:32:36 GMT
What you suggest seems a deliberate "infection" by Ford. Introducing self-awareness and memories might cause some of the hosts to turn to religion. Exactly! If they become self-aware sentient beings, the next step is a superstructure that they can use to explain origin, give meaning to life, etc. The only issue is, why would FORD be introducing that? He's the one who seems intent on keeping them sub-human, reminding the techs that they don't feel so there's no need to show them human emotion. So that begs the question, is the religion simply being used for control purposes and not any type of higher mysteries thing? And would Bernard be the one working surreptitiously to make them more human, or would that be...someone else with a vested interest? I'll have to watch the scenes showing the cross again - I'm wondering if Ford didn't deliberately put that there, he just FOUND it and is now trying to do something about it. Remember how he said that whispered words can change lives, and bring chaos? Then, suddenly Delores' dad is spouting off about violent delights having violent ends. Hmmmm.
If Ford is the one instigating the "infection" he wouldn't want anyone to interfer in his experiment.
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