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Post by Ser Duncan on Mar 23, 2016 23:09:40 GMT
Lady Nym declares that only royal blood can wash out her father’s murder. Doran replies that Oberyn died during single combat, fighting in a matter that was none of his concern. He didn’t think that it was murder. Ashara declares that Rhaegar shouldn’t be held responsible for Brandon and Rickard’s deaths, because Rickard asked for trial by combat. Tywin called it murder, and that Rhaegar needed to die along with Aerys. Ah I figured out what I was trying to say. If Ashara is asking Tywin to take revenge for the murders of Rickard and Brandon by killing Rhaegar. Tywin says it's was not murder but trial by combat, so no shedding of Royal blood is called for. However we know that Doran is planning to eventually do just that -- have them all dead and gone. Ashara, repeating the role of Lady Nym is eventually not allowed her royal blood shed, but will be set into a high position, politically, mainly one of representing Doran at court. Even though none if that latter is discussed or relieved yet, Ashara still has some powerful motivation for wanting Rhaegar dead. That 3 way marriage is ruined by the introduction of Lyanna, Some Pig's dishonouring of Ashara is what I'm thinking here. So like Lady Nym, Ashara's motivations are personal, not political. Where was Castamere? We know they were a bannermen to the Lannisters so somewhere west, but east of Casterly Rock, right? Looking through Alice's mirror Castamere would be somewhere west of Dorne...some bannerman to the Martells. I really couldn't guess what house this would be, but a different outcome would be that Doran doesn't destroy his bannermen. Oh what about the Yronwoods? The reason Quentyn is sent to ward with the Yronwood to heal the bad blood between them caused by Oberyn's actions. But that was in recent times, back through history, the Yronwoods have claimed they should be the ruling house of Dorne. At one point I think the Yronwoods claimed themselves to be Kings of the Boneway, and then Nymeria chose a Martell (Mors?) as her husband and they became the ruling house of Dorne, making the Yronwoods the second greatest house in Dorne. All the outcomes are different, so Bran changed the future. Sounds about right to me
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Post by Melifeather on Mar 23, 2016 23:28:02 GMT
Since Bran's intentions are to get different outcomes, then we can expect that Ashara asked for the opposite of Lady Nymeria. Lady Nymeria didn't want the complete destruction of "Oldtown", which symbolically is the reining Lannisters...she just wants four people dead: Cersei, Jaime, Tywin, and Tommen. So, the opposite of that request is to not destroy all of "Kings Landing" which symbolically is the reigning family, the Targaryens and the opposite of wanting them dead is to want them to be saved alive: Rhaegar, Elia, Rhaeynes, and Aegon.
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Post by Melifeather on Apr 1, 2016 4:12:15 GMT
I'm going to return after I absorb, but wanted to comment quickly on this: Arienne seems to clearly be channelling Cersei Arianne is, of course, seducing a white knight of the KG. In the character recap of my Marvel/Thor thread, I mention Cersei being a parallel to a character named Amora the Enchantress. (If you didn't read the link about Amora, READ IT! It is soooooo Cersei.) Anyway, Amora at one point seduces Heimdall, the guardian of the Bifrost Bridge into Asgard. For numerous reasons, I peg Heimdall as Arthur Dayne. Anyway, Heimdall has a weak moment and succumbs to Amora's charms. I won't get into plot specifics, but I realized that the idea of Cersei sexing up Arthur to further her own plans makes absolute sense. We always wondered how in the heck Cersei managed to get Jaime on the short list for KG replacement...well, here you go. Factor in Ned's sadness about AD and his waxing nostalgic about the greatness of KG of yore, and then Ned's peculiar feelings and reactions toward Cersei in his AGOT chapters - I think we have it. Arthur Dayne became the Soiled Knight. Now, you're seeing it again in Arianne, playing out the same scene with Arys - but as we see so often with Cersei in her current game, Arianne's background plans are in opposition to the plans worked out by her father. I have a lot more on this and it may not even belong in this thread, but I do find it scary and amusing how both lines of our research are ringing the same bells. I don't know if you've had a chance to read my chapter analysis of The Soiled Knight? It's not Arthur Dayne after all. I have a surprise for you!
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Post by Melifeather on Apr 9, 2016 20:23:02 GMT
I apologize, but I cannot remember exactly how I came across Sly Wren's comment about Illyn Payne, nor what the context was, but my mind jumped to the possibility that Illyn Payne was the historical Captain of Guards since as Some Pig No Doubt rightly points out Ser Gregor isn't old enough. Illyn Payne needs to be explored to see if he can be brought into this essay.
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Post by Melifeather on Feb 10, 2017 23:01:45 GMT
Funny how a reread conjures up new theories! It's always bothered me that the Sand snakes didn't correlate with any Lannister bastards since the Martells are mirroring the Lannister. Anyways, I think this chapter is actually about when Tywin Lannister's father, Tytos died. There are many more parallels between Doran and Tywin if we have Oberyn parallel Tytos, and Obara may be Tywin's sister Genna. We'll see what the reread project on Westeros brings up after I post the chapter summary this weekend. I think there is a further hint that my assumption is correct that the inversion story is about Tytos's death, because the chapter immediately following The Captain of Guards is a Cersei chapter where she finds out about Tywin's murder.
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Post by Melifeather on Mar 30, 2017 12:07:52 GMT
Since Casterly Rock is positioned over Dorne via the lookingglass, the Martells are now experiencing the previous lives of the Lannisters. Doran is Tywin and Arianne is Cersei. Areo therefore is the mirrored inversion to Sers Ilyn Payne and Gregor Clegane. Areo has and will continue to experience events that have already happened to Ilyn and Gregor, but the end results are the opposite. Take Darkstar and Myrcella for instance. I need to first insert that Myrcella represents a marriage pact between the throne and Dorne, whereas the opposite would have been Lyanna's marriage pact between the north and the future throne with Robert Baratheon. Darkstar attacked Myrcella, his sword cut down across the side of her face and nearly took her ear off, but she survived. Darkstar escapes from Areo while Myrcella and Arianne are taken home and confined in a tower. What may have been the opposite events with regards to Lyanna, Arthur Dayne, and Ser Ilyn? It would be the reverse with Lyanna confined in a tower fighting the Captain of Guards with Arthur Dayne preventing the rescue.
If Ser Ilyn laid the killing blow to Lyanna's head, escaping while Arthur fought Ned, why haven't we read this account? Haven't we read that "somebody always tells"? But what if you cannot talk?
Ser Ilyn was Tywin's Captain in the past. We can guess his actions based on what Areo has done and will do, but reverse the outcome. Ser Gregor is Tywin's current Captain, so we can guess Areo's future based on what he has done in the current story, but reverse the outcome.
What does this all mean for Areo? Well, to reiterate, i think we may be able to make some guesses based on what happened and is still happening to Ser Gregor and Ser Ilyn, but reverse the outcome. Both men guard Cersei, who has replaced (supplanted) Lyanna's rightful position as Robert's queen. Meanwhile Cersei's mirrored parallel, Arianne is on her own quest to marry a fTargaryen. Will she succeed where Cersei failed to marry Rhaegar?
Ser Gregor faced Oberyn Martell in combat, so I expect Areo will face off against a Lannister and be beheaded. Kind of ironic for Ser Ilyn's mirrored parallel to lose his head.
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