|
Post by min on Jan 20, 2017 19:03:47 GMT
So there could be a deeper meaning here in Ned's rationalization that Robert's Rebellion was meant to stop the killing of children. Or to Varys' motivation that he is acting in the best interest of the children rather than the realm. Even his statement to Ned that "The last thing I desire is your blood." In other words, the last thing on Varys' list of acquisitions is the Stark bloodline.
|
|
|
Post by freyfamilyreunion on Jan 20, 2017 20:23:03 GMT
I definitely think child sacrifice was the principle reason behind the tower of joy. A lot of the images surrounding the tower relate back to other tales of child sacrifice, the strongest association is the tale of Theseus and the Minotaur, but perhaps more subtly referenced, is the Valley of Hinnom, formerly Gehenna, where children were allegedly sacrificed to the bull headed god, Moloch, by "passing them through fire".
As for the why, I've also considered whether Dany might by Rhaegar's reincarnate. But I'm leaning more towards a literal meaning of the Dragon has three heads. They were looking to transfer the consciousness's of the children into a dragon upon hatching.
The phrase that someone is somebody "reborn" is thrown around frequently enough, it would be nice if someone actually was! Ha, very true! Drogo's funeral pyre is very similar to old Hindu cremation rituals as well, which makes me think Martin is not averse to the idea of reincarnation.
|
|
|
Post by Melifeather on Jan 20, 2017 20:24:57 GMT
Frey Family Reunion, what makes you think more than one child was sacrificed?
|
|
|
Post by freyfamilyreunion on Jan 20, 2017 20:27:25 GMT
So there could be a deeper meaning here in Ned's rationalization that Robert's Rebellion was meant to stop the killing of children. Or to Varys' motivation that he is acting in the best interest of the children rather than the realm. Even his statement to Ned that "The last thing I desire is your blood." In other words, the last thing on Varys' list of acquisitions is the Stark bloodline. That's really interesting, in most of my musings, I tend to forget about ol' Varys. Damn, that's a pretty cool idea though, and it seems to fit Martin's love of ambiguity. As for your first thought, yes, that's something that Snowfyre brought up before that I thought was a pretty good observation. What children is Ned talking about? As far as we know the Aerys was only killing adults, not children.
|
|
|
Post by freyfamilyreunion on Jan 20, 2017 20:28:44 GMT
Frey Family Reunion, what makes you think more than one child was sacrificed? It's a gut feeling that the phrase the dragon has three heads is actually fairly literal. Three consciousness need to be transferred into the dragon, thus three sacrifices (at least 3).
|
|
|
Post by Weasel Pie on Jan 20, 2017 21:07:12 GMT
Three consciousness need to be transferred into the dragon Child of three? Maybe Dany is the dragon here? It's not like we don't already have precedent for multiple consciousnesses occupying a single individual. If there is skinchanging in the North, why not a fire/dragon based version for the Targs?
|
|
|
Post by Melifeather on Jan 20, 2017 21:11:01 GMT
Recall when Theon presented the miller's children as Bran and Rickon. Is this meant to parallel when Tywin presented Aegon and Rhaenys? Maybe the dead children wrapped in Lannister flags weren't Aegon and Rhaenys after all? The third child would have to be Ashara's or Lyanna's, and Jon was swapped for the third child that perished in his place.
|
|
|
Post by Weasel Pie on Jan 20, 2017 21:15:49 GMT
Recall when Theon presented the miller's children as Bran and Rickon. Is this meant to parallel when Tywin presented Aegon and Rhaenys? Maybe the dead children wrapped in Lannister flags weren't Aegon and Rhaenys after all? The third child would have to be Ashara's or Lyanna's, and Jon was swapped for the third child that perished in his place. You KNOW I believe Aegon lives - and it probably not fAegon. Not sure about Rhaenys but why not? Yes I also believe Jon was a swap. Long long ago in a forum far far away.... Jon is Aegon V. But the timeline is wonky, and Jon looks like a Stark. Another old theory of mine was that the baby killed during the Sack was the child of Ned and Ashara, having been switched with Aegon via collusion between Elia and Ashara, possibly with the knowledge of Rhaegar. When Ned went to Starfall expecting to find Ashara and a baby, instead he heard his child had been killed. Etc. If there was a swap Jon is Aegon. If there was a double swap, Jon is Ned and Ashara's - and Sword of the Morning. Which would mean that Lyanna never had a baby. Or that... DANY is her baby with Rhaegar. This discovery brings back all sorts of intersting scenarios yet again.
|
|
|
Post by min on Jan 20, 2017 21:33:08 GMT
So there could be a deeper meaning here in Ned's rationalization that Robert's Rebellion was meant to stop the killing of children. Or to Varys' motivation that he is acting in the best interest of the children rather than the realm. Even his statement to Ned that "The last thing I desire is your blood." In other words, the last thing on Varys' list of acquisitions is the Stark bloodline. That's really interesting, in most of my musings, I tend to forget about ol' Varys. Damn, that's a pretty cool idea though, and it seems to fit Martin's love of ambiguity. As for your first thought, yes, that's something that Snowfyre brought up before that I thought was a pretty good observation. What children is Ned talking about? As far as we know the Aerys was only killing adults, not children. Another thought here concerning the legend of AA forging a fiery sword.... are we talking about an actual sword or a dragon. Is a dragon a fiery sword, a sword without a hilt? AA thrusts his 'sword' into nissa nissa's heart and the moon cracks open. Dany dreams of splitting open herself; the moon of Drogo's life. Two moons... two wives? three wives? Water, lion both shatter and spit in two, then fire?
|
|
|
Post by Weasel Pie on Jan 20, 2017 21:40:29 GMT
Dany dreams of splitting open herself; the moon of Drogo's life. Which is another possibility. Jon is Rhaego.
|
|
|
Post by min on Jan 20, 2017 21:44:55 GMT
Dany dreams of splitting open herself; the moon of Drogo's life. Which is another possibility. Jon is Rhaego. Or Jon represents the first attempt to forge a sword in water. In this case, the rider of the ice dragon.
|
|
|
Post by Weasel Pie on Jan 20, 2017 22:02:12 GMT
Or Jon represents the first attempt to forge a sword in water. In this case, the rider of the ice dragon. So if we combine them, water/lion/NissaNissa creates the child of three? Hmm. thinking out loud. If Jon is water, how do we proceed from there?
|
|
|
Post by min on Jan 20, 2017 22:17:03 GMT
I'm suggesting that there were two previous attempts for forge a sword or birth a dragon starting with Lyanna. Except that she dies instead of Jon. This starts to point to Aerys and the puppet master Varys.
If this is true, consider this passage:
What if Ned knows more about early attempts to birth a dragon and sacrifice of unborn children than he lets on. The dangerous secret about Jon. Varys or Littlefinger's acquisition of Robert's bastards. Varys' statement that Ned had the book and the bastard.
Is there another layer of meaning here other than the superficial meaning that Ned is investigating Jon Arryn's death. An answer he might find at Dragonstone?
"The last thing I desire is your blood." - Varys to Ned
|
|
|
Post by min on Jan 20, 2017 22:25:27 GMT
The dragon with three headscould actually be Bloodraven with Jon, Bran and Arya as three heads. Is the prophecy referring to Dany if she isn't a Targaryen or Bloodraven. Is the dragon really the ice dragon?
|
|
|
Post by Weasel Pie on Jan 20, 2017 22:30:14 GMT
Nice work there min, that's an interesting quote. Still wrapping my head around these angles. An answer he might find at Dragonstone? What answers would be at Dragonstone? Possibly something about Rhaella/Viserys/Dany? "The last thing I desire is your blood." - Varys to Ned This says to me... not Jon. It screams it actually. So what would that mean?
|
|