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Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 7, 2017 0:28:08 GMT
.... I didn't search for this week's official blurb because there are some leaks online.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 7, 2017 2:02:07 GMT
I found the battle of looter's train quite thrilling! I also enjoyed Arya and Brienne sparring. Was annoyed though that only 50 minutes!
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Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 7, 2017 2:03:07 GMT
WOW. They shorted us by 8 minutes but managed to make one of the best episodes of TV I've ever seen. Everything we've been waiting for - Stark Reunions, Dany reaching Westeros - and more. But I wanna talk about the dagger, since we were talking about it a few episodes ago. houseofblackandwhite.freeforums.net/thread/401/spoilers-season-7-episode-dragonstoneBran asked Littlefinger if he knew who owned it. Petyr may not have known but Bran did. Bran said the dagger was made to kill him. I want to remind everyone that the picture of the dagger was in a very old book Sam was reading. The dagger was made to kill Bran hundreds of years ago. Bran the Timelord more than confirmed - since Bran is probably not Brynden Rivers (I don't think) maybe he is the Night King/Great Other and all the Brandons. The show doesn't differentiate between the NK and the GO but the book probably will. And then he gave the dagger to Arya. Wow. That solves that mystery. Arya sparring with Brienne, finally Brienne gets a second in the sun this season. I wasn't majorly creeped out by and Jon/Dany scenes - in fact the writers are making it painfully obvious they're avoiding any romantic overtones between them. Dany on her dragon was glorious. OK now the cave. We've talked about the hollow earth theory here, as well as the swiss-cheese theory, that there is a vast otherworld in play, be it an external or internal world where there is a mysterious passage of both time and people/events. One of the cave-drawings - need to catch a screenshot - looked very much like this classic hollow-earth diagram. We're going places.
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Post by freyfamilyreunion on Aug 7, 2017 2:12:00 GMT
I guess I'm slowly coming to terms with the fact that the show is taking a much different path to the end-game than the books are (if in fact the books ever make it to the end). That was a pretty enjoyable episode. I guess my biggest complaint is the total disregard for time and geography. Perhaps the various armies are using the hidden wormholes in the hollow earth.
But yes, the dagger scene has future potential. If in fact Bran, or future Bran, is the creator of the White Walkers, and Bran recognizes that the dagger is destined to put an end to him, than him giving it to Arya has definite dramatic potential. A bittersweet ending indeed.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 7, 2017 2:17:16 GMT
Bran recognizes that the dagger is destined to put an end to him, than him giving it to Arya has definite dramatic potential. A bittersweet ending indeed. That scene was drenched in foreboding. It was great to see Arya let her guard down and embrace Sansa and Bran, but then Bran reminded us what's up.
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Post by freyfamilyreunion on Aug 7, 2017 2:40:05 GMT
Bran recognizes that the dagger is destined to put an end to him, than him giving it to Arya has definite dramatic potential. A bittersweet ending indeed. That scene was drenched in foreboding. It was great to see Arya let her guard down and embrace Sansa and Bran, but then Bran reminded us what's up. I've been thinking a bit about the dagger in the books, and what George may be referencing with it. The fact that it has a dragon bone hilt, and is made of Valyrian steel, it's not a stretch to liken the dragonbone/Valyrian steel dagger as a "dragon tooth". Which in turn makes me think of the Greek legend of Cadmus and "sowing the dragon's teeth". Cadmus killed a dragon sacred to Ares. Artemis counseled him to sow the dragon teeth into a field. Out of the teeth rose an army. Into the army Cadmus through a stone or jewel, which caused the army to fight over it until only five survivors remained. Those survivors joined with Cadmus and they found the city of Thebes. That tale has led to the praise "to sow dragon's teeth". Which means formenting disputes or discord. Preston Jacobs put forth a theory that Mance Rayder may have been the one who gave the blade to the cutthroat. I've toyed with that theory myself, considering Mance goes to Winterfell with a bag of silver, and it just so happens a bag of silver was given to the cutthroat. And Preston did a pretty good job of referencing the Wildling's less than sympathetic view towards children who are sick or maimed. Murdering them as a "mercy" seems to be an acceptable resolution according to Val. But Preston never really did a good job of explaining why a Valyrian blade would have been given to the cutthroat to kill a crippled boy. It seems quite the overkill. But perhaps if the blade was taken from the King's unused collection of hunting blades, Mance's motive in addition to being a mercy kill for Bran, was to forment dissent between Winterfell and the King. Perhaps his plan was to put his primary enemy, House Stark, at war with the South, to divert their attention from the Wall. In other words, using a dragon's tooth to forment dissent and to create armies out of thin air, to do the fighting for him. The only problem is, no one connects the dagger to King Robert. However, when the "dragon's tooth" dagger makes it's way down to King's Landing and into the hands of Littlefinger, Littlefinger deftly uses it for the same purposes. His lie about the dagger is what sets House Stark against House Lannister. His plan succeeds, and Littlefinger sows the dragon's tooth into the creation of five armies (perhaps to parallel the five survivors from the Cadmus tale) and considerable discord.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 7, 2017 4:20:47 GMT
One of the cave-drawings - need to catch a screenshot - looked very much like this classic hollow-earth diagram. YEESSSSSSSS I saw the same thing and at first thought it was an ouroboros, but YES....it's totally the hollow earth. Need to go back and rewatch those symbols again - I think I have something on the spirals too. So what did you guys make of the "Chaos is a laddah" bit? Although that's solely a show thing, it still makes me wonder because that was a convo between Littlefinger and Varys back when, and I'm not convinced that they don't have much larger and broader roles in the books. If the dagger was made to kill Bran(don), and he gave it to Arya, then it sounds like Arya is going to have to do the deed - put aside the Faceless Men "I know this man" reservations and kill her own brother. Why? Obviously to save humanity somehow. Will Bran be skinchanging something at the time? Kill the controlling mind and the body of the other dies with it? Aside from the magic Black Arrow of Erebor wielded by Bronn the Bowman, I enjoyed the Field of Fire 2.0. Can't wait to see how Jaime's special plot armor had special buoyancy particles folded into the steel that help him float to the top of the lake instead of sinking like a stone a la EVERY OTHER CHARACTER IN THE SERIES THAT HAS FALLEN INTO WATER WEARING ARMOR.
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Post by wolfmaid7 on Aug 7, 2017 16:37:58 GMT
Hmmm I took away something a bit different.Bran's convo with Meets about "him not being Bran anymore not really"and Meera saying Bran "died in the cave" has me thinking that again it isn't our Bran, not entirely anyway.That Bran did die in the cave and what came out is Bran(don)The builder...and the many other echoes or shadows he has on his soul.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 7, 2017 16:51:35 GMT
Bran asked Littlefinger if he knew who owned it. Petyr may not have known but Bran did. Bran said the dagger was made to kill him. I want to remind everyone that the picture of the dagger was in a very old book Sam was reading. The dagger was made to kill Bran hundreds of years ago. Bran the Timelord more than confirmed - since Bran is probably not Brynden Rivers (I don't think) maybe he is the Night King/Great Other and all the Brandons. The show doesn't differentiate between the NK and the GO but the book probably will. And then he gave the dagger to Arya. Wow. That solves that mystery. Maybe the dragon's tooth blade is needed to kill Brandon if he's the one that was turned by the Children into a greenseer, well, more than a greenseer if his army is the army of the dead. But then why would Bloodraven want him to come to the cave? And if he needs to be killed, why didn't the Children kill him? Why does it have to be Arya? I do recall repeating that line at home when I was watching. I said to Shane, "did he just say chaos is a ladder?" He just shook his head, because he really does't follow all that well, so I was left wondering if that was what was said. What do you think it meant?
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 7, 2017 17:52:49 GMT
Aside from the magic Black Arrow of Erebor wielded by Bronn the Bowman, I enjoyed the Field of Fire 2.0. Can't wait to see how Jaime's special plot armor had special buoyancy particles folded into the steel that help him float to the top of the lake instead of sinking like a stone a la EVERY OTHER CHARACTER IN THE SERIES THAT HAS FALLEN INTO WATER WEARING ARMOR. If there is a hollow earth situation, do you think Jaime fell down a "wormhole"? Was that Bronn that saved him from the dragon flame? Shane's like, "were they next to a lake?!" It should have been a stream or puddle right, not a 50ft deep lake! Surely he's a goner, unless he falls through a wormhole into another place?
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Post by freyfamilyreunion on Aug 7, 2017 18:02:58 GMT
Bran asked Littlefinger if he knew who owned it. Petyr may not have known but Bran did. Bran said the dagger was made to kill him. I want to remind everyone that the picture of the dagger was in a very old book Sam was reading. The dagger was made to kill Bran hundreds of years ago. Bran the Timelord more than confirmed - since Bran is probably not Brynden Rivers (I don't think) maybe he is the Night King/Great Other and all the Brandons. The show doesn't differentiate between the NK and the GO but the book probably will. And then he gave the dagger to Arya. Wow. That solves that mystery. Maybe the dragon's tooth blade is needed to kill Brandon if he's the one that was turned by the Children into a greenseer, well, more than a greenseer if his army is the army of the dead. But then why would Bloodraven want him to come to the cave? And if he needs to be killed, why didn't the Children kill him? Why does it have to be Arya? I do recall repeating that line at home when I was watching. I said to Shane, "did he just say chaos is a ladder?" He just shook his head, because he really does't follow all that well, so I was left wondering if that was what was said. What do you think it meant? Well my thought regarding the books is that the Children may also be part of the driving force behind the creation of the White Walkers along with Bran. Now I'm not too sure about the dynamics in the show. I don't really recall too much of the final scenes in the cave, other than the Ho' da door line. I assume that Bloodraven lured Bran inside the cave to pass the mantle of greenseer on to Bran, since it appears that Bloodraven was about the shuffle off the mortal coil.
I have no memory of the chaos is a laddah, scene before this show. And I don't really have a good answer for it's meaning. I wonder if it might be a reference to a DNA chain, as a type of ladder ?
But speaking of line which were hard to understand. What exactly did Tyrion exclaim as he watched Jaime the moment before Jaime made his mad dash to kill Dany? Was it "flee you fool"? or "fly you fool"? If it was the latter, it would be a pretty neat nod to the Fellowship of the Rings.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 7, 2017 18:11:02 GMT
Chaos is a laddah referenced a convo between LF and Varys back in S 3 , I believe. You can google it and get the scene. This was bran letting it be known that he knows everything, Jon Snow.
Tyrion's line was "you fucking fool"- not nearly so poetic as LOTR, I'm afraid.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 7, 2017 18:17:43 GMT
Aside from the magic Black Arrow of Erebor wielded by Bronn the Bowman, I enjoyed the Field of Fire 2.0. Can't wait to see how Jaime's special plot armor had special buoyancy particles folded into the steel that help him float to the top of the lake instead of sinking like a stone a la EVERY OTHER CHARACTER IN THE SERIES THAT HAS FALLEN INTO WATER WEARING ARMOR. If there is a hollow earth situation, do you think Jaime fell down a "wormhole"? Was that Bronn that saved him from the dragon flame? Shane's like, "were they next to a lake?!" It should have been a stream or puddle right, not a 50ft deep lake! Surely he's a goner, unless he falls through a wormhole into another place? Zero chance of wormhole. Jaime will be saved by his magic floating plot armor and Bronn of Laketown, I mean Blackwater, who will undoubtedly pull him up from the bottom of the water. Can't recall if it's show or book, but Bronn has already commented that he refuses to wear armor because it weighs him down...I believe this was from the books w/r/t his trial by combat fight with Ser Vardis in the Vale. Not sure if that creeped into the show but o am fully confident that this will be how he saves Lannister bacon yet again.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 7, 2017 18:24:26 GMT
I thought I heard both, because I basically got the sense that Tyrion wanted Jaime to flee AND he thought he was being foolish. Jaime was falling quite deep. I hope Bronn is a good swimmer!
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Post by freyfamilyreunion on Aug 7, 2017 18:25:18 GMT
Chaos is a laddah referenced a convo between LF and Varys back in S 3 , I believe. You can google it and get the scene. This was bran letting it be known that he knows everything, Jon Snow. Tyrion's line was "you fucking fool"- not nearly so poetic as LOTR, I'm afraid. Oh well a lost opportunity for a cool reference. At least it's better than "you want a good girl but need the bad pussy" line.
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