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Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 13, 2017 18:33:07 GMT
In which I'm supposing some stuff happens at Eastwatch.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 14, 2017 1:12:04 GMT
You sound about as excited about this season as I feel.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 14, 2017 1:49:41 GMT
Welp. RLJ.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 14, 2017 2:16:45 GMT
OK, so essentially, we all know GRRM likes to hint RLJ, and Elia likes to sell RLJ, and we all know RLJ is accepted to the point of claiming it's canon. But as many of us have discussed, there can be no surprise without being lured into accepting something else as the truth. So, that may not be the end of things on the show. Yet I can't help but be annoyed at D&D for buying into the whole "secret wedding" things.
As far as books go, I've said a few times that the RLJ agenda will be fleshed out in WoW, but we won't see the true resolution of the story until DoS - perhaps even the very last paragraph.
Anyway. Gendry and Mjolnir are safely with Prince Snow, along with the Hound, Jorah, Beric, Thoros, Davos, Tormund and Moonboy for all I know. That was fast.
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Post by freyfamilyreunion on Aug 14, 2017 3:51:20 GMT
OK, so essentially, we all know GRRM likes to hint RLJ, and Elia likes to sell RLJ, and we all know RLJ is accepted to the point of claiming it's canon. But as many of us have discussed, there can be no surprise without being lured into accepting something else as the truth. So, that may not be the end of things on the show. Yet I can't help but be annoyed at D&D for buying into the whole "secret wedding" things. As far as books go, I've said a few times that the RLJ agenda will be fleshed out in WoW, but we won't see the true resolution of the story until DoS - perhaps even the very last paragraph. Anyway. Gendry and Mjolnir are safely with Prince Snow, along with the Hound, Jorah, Beric, Thoros, Davos, Tormund and Moonboy for all I know. That was fast. "Sammy, what is an an- an-ul-ment?" "Gilly, that's a made up thing that Rhaegar fangirls dreamed up to let a married guy with two kids, hide a 15 year old girl from her family, in a decrepit abandoned tower and then fuck her until she conceives, without seeming, you know too pedophiley." "Pedo-pheely?" "You know, um, what your dad was doing with you without the incest thing." "So this Rheegar, he was romantic, like my Papa? "Yea he was a real Prince Charming, and like your dear old dad, he was probably going to sacrifice his kids too. You know, to "wake the dragon". I always assumed it was a Targaryen term for a boner, but I guess like The Prince that was Promised, something got lost in the translation. Listen forget that BS, and read that part about the Maesters bowel movements again. Does he give any tips? It's been about two months since I had my last one, and I'm starting to get a little worried."
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 14, 2017 4:06:18 GMT
Lolololol
I swear, D&D just freaking dialed it in once they realized George wasn't going to throw them any more plot bones - this episode was like 98% fanservice. All that's missing is for Sansa to hook up with the Hound and Arya and Gendry to reunite and all the theories will be complete.
Again though, wtf is the point of the RLJ stuff? Ok, so an a-nul-mint and a secret wedding in Dorne presided over by a maester of the Citadel ...did I miss Lyanna's name being explicitly mentioned? I didn't hear a name, only that "Ragger" got remarried. So if this is the same as the whispered name that no one could make out during Lyanna's TOJ scene, why hold it back? Why do all this deliberate trolling, release of the Targaryen Org Chart last year specifically stating RLJ, but then be so mum about it both in show and interviews? Is this all misdirection for a different Big Reveal?
The Arthur Dayne cameo there certainly made me wonder....
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 14, 2017 6:20:56 GMT
Don't forget Drogon sniffed Jon and presumably was pleased with his Targaryen scent!
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Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 14, 2017 11:16:56 GMT
Bugs me that they didn't have a conversation about Rickon, and Arya never thought to ask about him, nor has anyone mentioned any of the direwolves (other than Meera). Also bothers me that Meera had such a fast exit without breaking bread and talking with Sansa because maybe Bran's state would make more sense if she knew more of what they'd been through.
Also not sure why there wasn't a high five between Sansa and Arya that the Boltons, the Freys, and Joffrey are all dead. It didn't even have to be in the context of The List. The obliteration of the Freys was glossed over, no one has even speculated what happened there and no one even seems to care very much, other than a passing mention by Cersei and Jaime.
With all the bromeraderie, why didn't Gendry ask Jon if Arya ever made it to the Wall? Why not say - we may be strangers, but I know Arya from our escape from KL and journey north. Etc.
How about... Sir Jorah, it's a miracle you were cured! What cured you, who did it?
Way too many scenarios like these that could have been addressed with a single line in the script.
Now, Sam. All this time, he hasn't asked for an audience of Archmaesters to talk about what he saw beyond the Wall? He killed one himself. What's the point of not telling him about Randyll and Dickon? Kind of obvious he's the last of his line, and his mother and sister will want him to be Lord of Horn Hill.
Dany wiped out the Lannister army, Davos travelled to and from King's Landing and then to the wall with the mantourage - and we don't have a single word about the Unsullied at Casterly Rock. Cersei doesn't even ask about it? "The Unsullied are holed up at Casterly Rock, sweet sister, under seige by the Greyjoys."
I loved last week's episode. I watched last night's dumbfounded.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 14, 2017 11:57:16 GMT
Amen to all of that. Sadly, many of those gaps could have been filled by allotting enough time for it, meaning keeping the season at 10 episodes. The plot is simply too rushed.
Had a thought before bed last night about the RLJ puzzle. Have been trying to figure out why in the hell this seems to be every Westeros.org theory come to life, despite D&D meeting with George to hammer out endgame plot points for S5 onward. I mean, it is clear from GRRM's attitude that he is miffed about their interpretations, but why would that be, if he supposedly gave them all the answers?
My guess: he didn't. *I* think that George , in that sit-down meeting, gave them another test...like the one he gave them when they first pitched the show to him to see how well they'd been paying attention to the books: "Who is Jon Snow's mother?" But this time, they tried to grill him on "who is Jon Snow's FATHER"....and he made them answer. Of course they went with fan theory on basically everything- TOJ, secret wedding, etc. this time they did NOT guess correctly-- George would have either just allowed them to roll with their wrong answer, or flat out told them to suck it since they obviously weren't paying attention anymore. As a result, we have fan service. This is exactly the cagey shit that GRRM would do--and I bet D&D know they are wrong, but have no other choice since he wouldn't reward them for an incorrect guess.
I am holding out hope, guys!
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Post by freyfamilyreunion on Aug 14, 2017 12:25:51 GMT
Amen to all of that. Sadly, many of those gaps could have been filled by allotting enough time for it, meaning keeping the season at 10 episodes. The plot is simply too rushed. Had a thought before bed last night about the RLJ puzzle. Have been trying to figure out why in the hell this seems to be every Westeros.org theory come to life, despite D&D meeting with George to hammer out endgame plot points for S5 onward. I mean, it is clear from GRRM's attitude that he is miffed about their interpretations, but why would that be, if he supposedly gave them all the answers? My guess: he didn't. *I* think that George , in that sit-down meeting, gave them another test...like the one he gave them when they first pitched the show to him to see how well they'd been paying attention to the books: "Who is Jon Snow's mother?" But this time, they tried to grill him on "who is Jon Snow's FATHER"....and he made them answer. Of course they went with fan theory on basically everything- TOJ, secret wedding, etc. this time they did NOT guess correctly-- George would have either just allowed them to roll with their wrong answer, or flat out told them to suck it since they obviously weren't paying attention anymore. As a result, we have fan service. This is exactly the cagey shit that GRRM would do--and I bet D&D know they are wrong, but have no other choice since he wouldn't reward them for an incorrect guess. I am holding out hope, guys! The other possibility is that this is D & D's attempt to create a "little" misdirection. The problem is, if you ask the average show viewer, they don't know who Rhaegar is. So what this may turn out to be is simply D & D trolling the book readers a bit. Of course knowing this awful show, they may have just said fuck it, and they're giving everyone what they think they want, Jon, Dany, and Tyrion all being dragon riders, melting the ice zombies, ect. ect.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 14, 2017 14:39:28 GMT
Of course they went with fan theory on basically everything- TOJ, secret wedding, etc. this time they did NOT guess correctly-- George would have either just allowed them to roll with their wrong answer, or flat out told them to suck it since they obviously weren't paying attention anymore. As a result, we have fan service. This is exactly the cagey shit that GRRM would do--and I bet D&D know they are wrong, but have no other choice since he wouldn't reward them for an incorrect guess. The other possibility is that this is D & D's attempt to create a "little" misdirection. It occurs to me that the reason they sent Meera packing was so she could introduce Howland Reed into the story. I mean, it was so ridiculous how neither Jon nor Sansa thought to ask Greywater Watch to represent. Seeing that there is one more season, maybe they'll hand us RLJ, then take it away as a cliffhanger? Or will we be subjected to a whole season of this next year? It's possible that GRRM insisted they come up with a different ending. If GRRM was SOOOO concerned they'd possibly spoil his books, he would have released them already. Imagine the outcry if the books play out - the broad strokes mind you - the same way as the show. This makes RLJ pretty damned boring. Imagine the outcry if they DON'T. This makes RLJ a joke.
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Post by freyfamilyreunion on Aug 14, 2017 16:10:18 GMT
Of course they went with fan theory on basically everything- TOJ, secret wedding, etc. this time they did NOT guess correctly-- George would have either just allowed them to roll with their wrong answer, or flat out told them to suck it since they obviously weren't paying attention anymore. As a result, we have fan service. This is exactly the cagey shit that GRRM would do--and I bet D&D know they are wrong, but have no other choice since he wouldn't reward them for an incorrect guess. The other possibility is that this is D & D's attempt to create a "little" misdirection. It occurs to me that the reason they sent Meera packing was so she could introduce Howland Reed into the story. I mean, it was so ridiculous how neither Jon nor Sansa thought to ask Greywater Watch to represent. Seeing that there is one more season, maybe they'll hand us RLJ, then take it away as a cliffhanger? Or will we be subjected to a whole season of this next year? It's possible that GRRM insisted they come up with a different ending. If GRRM was SOOOO concerned they'd possibly spoil his books, he would have released them already. Imagine the outcry if the books play out - the broad strokes mind you - the same way as the show. This makes RLJ pretty damned boring. Imagine the outcry if they DON'T. This makes RLJ a joke. The shows have already played out how ludicrous this notion of having a "rightful claim" to the throne really is. Jon has already refused to recognize Dany as Queen of the North, and Dany's authority is only being recognized through brute force. Cersei is only sitting on the throne because all of her kids have died, and she has killed off everyone who was a threat to her power in King's Landing. And Jon has no legitimate to claim to Winterfell, but it didn't stop everyone from deciding to go ahead and recognize him as King of the North, anyway.
So for the show to turn around, and make some secret reveal that Jon is Rhaegar's son, based on the word of Howland Reed and some Septon, and then expect that to have some type of moral authority with anyone still alive, is a bit ludicrous. Even for this ludicrous show.
I think it is much more probable that they will make Jon a dragonrider at some point, mainly because I'm sure the show runners want at least one scene with three main characters riding dragons, and fighting it out, because you know, it looks really cool. So I suppose, if Jon is one of the dragonriders, then they can try to give him a Targaryen heritage as an attempt to explain his ability to ride a dragon.
I still think that your Tarly as Aegon theory is correct though, and I think it's a swerve that the show could still possibly recognize. Did you notice, that as Samwell, was leaving the Citadel, they panned up the Hightower and focused on the flame atop the Hightower?
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Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 14, 2017 18:35:44 GMT
I still think that your Tarly as Aegon theory is correct though, and I think it's a swerve that the show could still possibly recognize. Did you notice, that as Samwell, was leaving the Citadel, they panned up the Hightower and focused on the flame atop the Hightower? I did notice that. I also noticed that - before the Dany scenes - anything that supposedly referred to Jon as a Targ featured Sam in proximity. And we can't forget the scene where Ghost protects Sam from the bad boy black brothers, a scene of similar power to the one of Jon and Drogon. Or the scene where Jon is bathed in cold blue light, and Sam in warm red light. Or that the White Walker and the wights completely ignored Sam after he fled from the fist. Of course there is more in the book as we talked about, but the show is setting it up for us. Even Sam being the one to heal Jorah, when Jorah was the only one to vanquish Rhaegar at the tourney. Etc. ETA If Sam isn't the Tarly heir, it fits with the larger theme of show show, with the southern houses being decimated. It also gives Sam an important sword. Backtracking to my theory that Jaime will be SotM and Brienne will be SotEvening - I've tossed around that Sam is a DAYNE, not Aegon VI. But being a Targ fits the story - both book and show - much better.
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Post by cooterian15 on Aug 14, 2017 20:17:46 GMT
With this fast pace that we are in I half way expect Cersei to be giving birth next week!
As for the Lanisters I don't see how they remain relevant. Their army is decimated and Cersei is pretty much left with Qyburn and Robert Strong. I suppose Jaime may have a renewed interest knowing that Cersei is pregnant and that they might have an heir to the throne. NOTE: let's not forget that Sansa still has Ramsey's unborn child and could also give birth before this season has concluded. To what end you ask....I have no friggin idea.
My guess is next week the band of misfits come away with a wight and ship them off to Kings Landing. The Night King's and his army of the dead will cross the wall @ Eastwatch and then end up on the open field outside of Winterfell (a.k.a. Battle of Bastards), which is where they will stay until Season 8.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 15, 2017 0:32:51 GMT
Of course knowing this awful show, they may have just said fuck it, and they're giving everyone what they think they want, Jon, Dany, and Tyrion all being dragon riders, melting the ice zombies, ect. ect. That's where I was going with my idea upthread - George didn't give them anything solid to go on because they didn't pass the "I actually read the books" test with regard to JonDaddy. Like GRRM said w/r/t the question he posed to them about JonMommy, even if they had given a wrong answer, he still would have given them credit had they justified it well, put forth a good argument for it. I suspect he might have done the same thing when they met with him again, and this time they not only gave the wrong answer, but just regurgitated a bunch of fan theory they picked up from lurking at Westeros. Since they gave him garbage, he repaid the favor by giving them little to nothing of the actual parentage mystery, and they had to resort to using the fan theory they spewed in the first place - which was probably fine, because "it's good TV". I mean, they don't care...not anymore. Seeing that there is one more season, maybe they'll hand us RLJ, then take it away as a cliffhanger? Or will we be subjected to a whole season of this next year? I think the latter. All spoilers indicate that we will get full-bore RLJ in the last episode. The reveal sounds ridiculous and I am hoping against all hope that the leaks are faker than hell, but... If they ARE true, though, I will be 100% convinced that my theory is right and this is all D&D's shitshow - no George involved. (Yes, the leaked ending is that bad.) Even Sam being the one to heal Jorah, when Jorah was the only one to vanquish Rhaegar at the tourney. ?Que? NOTE: let's not forget that Sansa still has Ramsey's unborn child and could also give birth before this season has concluded. ?Que?
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