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Post by Weasel Pie on Sept 27, 2017 17:17:11 GMT
Because we've had so many new ideas stemming from other threads, I thought I'd create a space here so those other threads don't go entirely off track. If things flesh out from this thread, new threads will be made on particular topics. A fake suicide, a mistress, a child, a doppelgänger, a conspiracy to commit murder, etc And old fave idea of mine of course that Young Griff is the child of Ashara Dayne and Ned, just haven't fit it into your above narrative yet, but get a load of this: Originally Ashara (at the advice of Ned?) switched Aegon and their child to help out (?) Rhaegar and Elia and save Aegon from the wrath of an incoming king. Aemon/Monster switch - intentional, to save one baby. Varys babyswitches, installing the Pisswater Prince and unknowingly spirits away the Dayne/Stark baby. Ashara being Gilly, Ned being Jon, Elia being Dalla, Rhaegar (well Brandon) being Mance. Aegon being Aemon, Monster being the Ashara/Gilly baby. Brandon/Mance is burned alive. So this makes the baby Ashara had the son of BRANDON. Young Griff is the son of Ashara and Brandon. Brandon is of course our monster Bran skinchanging his namesake. Monster baby who was switched out needs to have connection to Bran's monster. CRACKPOT: This makes Coldhands... Brandon Stark. Bran created this monster by skinchanging him. He was "revived" in the Winterfell Crypts (by blue roses?) and sent North of the Wall.
Bael/Mance/Abel knows there are secret tunnels in the crypts. Mance wasn't looking for a marriage cloak, he was looking for the tunnel. GRRM went out of his way to make Ashara look like a Targ and it needs to serve a narrative purpose. It has not yet, but this scenario fires the gun. Any Targiness that YG has is actually Warginess? Heh. I need to timeline. Additionally this might point to Lyanna's tale, but I need a mental break. ETA Whackjob Alert: The Great Other is a woman. Lyanna is possibly the daughter of TGO - as are Dal and Valla, who represent a sisterhood who rule over the halls of the dead in Valhalla. Dany - or at the least one of the Valyrian ancestors - is also part of this bloodline possibly directly - lost daughter of TGO (TGO+Rhaegar). I do have thoughts that TGO is actually Lyanna, whose was "revived" by the blue roses and sent North of the Wall, but something went terribly wrong and she wonky-timed back 8,000 years-ish. The Great Other Lady (this is one of the sex-changes I've been looking for, the "prince/princess who was promised" mirrors) has been doomed to take the souls and seeds of men - Stark men - to try and birth "a son to avenge her." She was the wife of the Stark "Night King" - her brother Brandon inhabited by Bran. Craster breeds Starkcest boys to send to her. She turns these boys into sons to avenge her - the White Walkers/Others. Her daughters can appear human but the sons do not. The final battle is between The Great Other/Lyanna, her lover Brandon/Bran/the NK and their son. |
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Post by frostclaw on Oct 27, 2017 18:52:18 GMT
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Post by Melifeather on Oct 28, 2017 4:52:21 GMT
Ashara being Gilly, Ned being Jon, Elia being Dalla, Rhaegar (well Brandon) being Mance. Aegon being Aemon, Monster being the Ashara/Gilly baby. I think Ned is Sam and whoever was Lord Commander during Robert's Rebellion is Jon. I like throwing Mance in the mix, but to me he parallels Rhaegar. And if Ashara is Gilly then Lyanna is Dalla, because she died, and because I think GRRM is trying to demonstrate that Lyanna and Ashara are "sisters". Brandon/Mance is burned alive. Rickard burned alive. Brandon strangled himself trying to reach a sword to cut Rickard loose. So this makes the baby Ashara had the son of BRANDON. Young Griff is the son of Ashara and Brandon. Brandon is of course our monster Bran skinchanging his namesake. Monster baby who was switched out needs to have connection to Bran's monster. I think you're onto something here, because of the line where Coldhands says to Bran: "Your monster, Brandon Stark." Monster: Gilly's baby, and Coldhands: Bran's monster. |
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Post by Weasel Pie on Oct 28, 2017 15:32:43 GMT
You've got some really fascinating ideas there. I haven't absorbed all of it, but I especially appreciate the section about Arya as a "psychopomp" archetype. Is it possible you can make a separate thread about that here so we can all learn more about that? I also really appreciate where you wrote that "The iron coin is a magical ‘key’ or, more precisely, a ‘pass.’ " because I've recently come to the conclusion that the blue roses may act in the same manner, as a sort of "key." Great stuff. And welcome! We love new ideas here, hope you'll jump in and share. |
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Post by Weasel Pie on Oct 28, 2017 15:45:42 GMT
Ashara being Gilly, Ned being Jon, Elia being Dalla, Rhaegar (well Brandon) being Mance. Aegon being Aemon, Monster being the Ashara/Gilly baby. I think Ned is Sam and whoever was Lord Commander during Robert's Rebellion is Jon. I like throwing Mance in the mix, but to me he parallels Rhaegar. And if Ashara is Gilly then Lyanna is Dalla, because she died, and because I think GRRM is trying to demonstrate that Lyanna and Ashara are "sisters". Brandon/Mance is burned alive. Rickard burned alive. Brandon strangled himself trying to reach a sword to cut Rickard loose. So this makes the baby Ashara had the son of BRANDON. Young Griff is the son of Ashara and Brandon. Brandon is of course our monster Bran skinchanging his namesake. Monster baby who was switched out needs to have connection to Bran's monster. I think you're onto something here, because of the line where Coldhands says to Bran: "Your monster, Brandon Stark." Monster: Gilly's baby, and Coldhands: Bran's monster. You've got me thinking out loud a bit. Yes I realize I mis-stated about Brandon being burned alive, duh me. My broader thought was about Brandon being inhabited by Bran while Rickard was being burned alive, and how Rattleshirt was burned alive while being glamoured as Mance. Could Brandon's self-asphyxiation mean something more here? Was Rickard himself being glamoured? Brandon was reaching for a sword. Dunno why now I keep thinking of the HP scenes with the port keys. "Rhaegar" being glamoured at the Trident seems almost a given, a clear Mance parallel as you point out. Hmm. |
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Post by Melifeather on Oct 29, 2017 15:38:44 GMT
Yes I realize I mis-stated about Brandon being burned alive, duh me. My broader thought was about Brandon being inhabited by Bran while Rickard was being burned alive, and how Rattleshirt was burned alive while being glamoured as Mance. Could Brandon's self-asphyxiation mean something more here? Was Rickard himself being glamoured? Brandon was reaching for a sword. Dunno why now I keep thinking of the HP scenes with the port keys. "Rhaegar" being glamoured at the Trident seems almost a given, a clear Mance parallel as you point out. Hmm. Lets deconstruct Rattleshirt: Rattleshirt burning in a cage is likely the parallel to Rickard burning in his armor. Didn't Jon have a couple men shoot arrows into "Mance" (Rattleshirt) to ease his suffering? Nickname: The Lord of Bones. "To crows, I be the Lord o Bones" "Might be you fooled these others, crow, but don’t think you’ll be fooling Mance. He’ll take one look a’ you and know you’re false. And when he does, I’ll make a cloak o’ your wolf there, and open your soft boy’s belly and sew a weasel up inside."Couldn't Rickard also be a kind of lord of bones over the dead Kings of Winter down in the crypts? What the hell is GRRM implying by writing "sew a weasel up inside"? Is this meant to he a clue for Arya? Rattleshirt: Could a suit of armor also be said to "rattle"? Broken giant's skull used as his helm: Anyone want to take a stab at this? Rattleshirt led the party that captured Qhorin Halfhand and Jon Snow. Rattleshirt brought Jon to Mance. The use of glamours on both Rattleshirt and Mance does seem to suggest glamouring could have been used before, but I see no purpose in glamouring Rickard. I have suggested in years past that the rubies on Rhaegar's breastplate could mean that Rhaegar wasn't inside that armor. This would support the theory that Rhaegar is still alive and maybe in disguise as Mance, but I also like the theory that Rhaegar's closest men tried resurrecting him at the tower of joy. |
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Post by Weasel Pie on Oct 29, 2017 17:21:47 GMT
Yes I realize I mis-stated about Brandon being burned alive, duh me. My broader thought was about Brandon being inhabited by Bran while Rickard was being burned alive, and how Rattleshirt was burned alive while being glamoured as Mance. Could Brandon's self-asphyxiation mean something more here? Was Rickard himself being glamoured? Brandon was reaching for a sword. Dunno why now I keep thinking of the HP scenes with the port keys. "Rhaegar" being glamoured at the Trident seems almost a given, a clear Mance parallel as you point out. Hmm. Lets deconstruct Rattleshirt: Rattleshirt burning in a cage is likely the parallel to Rickard burning in his armor. Didn't Jon have a couple men shoot arrows into "Mance" (Rattleshirt) to ease his suffering? More in a bit, but in the pink letter, Ramsay (?) says "If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell." Very obvious this refers to skinchanging/Varamyr Sixskins. Is GRRM saying Mance was a skinchanger as talented as Varamyr? Old Turtle obviously wants us to associate caged Mance with Varamyr's prologue, I'll give it another look. Are you saying Uncle Brandon was reaching for the sword to end Rickard's suffering, not necessarily to free him? I'm thinking this all might point to someone impersonating either Rickard or Brandon. An FM? We all know how stupid it was for them to both make the same mistake and go to KL and accuse the Crown Prince of wrongdoing. Shades of Ned right there. |
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Post by Weasel Pie on Oct 29, 2017 17:27:00 GMT
Broken giant's skull used as his helm: Anyone want to take a stab at this? Off the cuff, Rattleshirt was not a skinchanger. He had to be glamoured. He wore the skull like a mask. Are we supposed to remember the distinction between skinchangers and Faceless Men where is concerns these events beyond the Wall? If there are FMs in the story beyond the Wall, it destroys every anti-theory that is based purely on looks. Mance could be Rhaegar after all. WAY different direction but since Arya is both a Skinchanger and a Faceless Man, what are the implications there? There must be some, otherwise her character wouldn't have been designed like that. |
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Post by Melifeather on Oct 31, 2017 17:25:43 GMT
Lets deconstruct Rattleshirt: Rattleshirt burning in a cage is likely the parallel to Rickard burning in his armor. Didn't Jon have a couple men shoot arrows into "Mance" (Rattleshirt) to ease his suffering? More in a bit, but in the pink letter, Ramsay (?) says "If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell." Very obvious this refers to skinchanging/Varamyr Sixskins. Is GRRM saying Mance was a skinchanger as talented as Varamyr? Old Turtle obviously wants us to associate caged Mance with Varamyr's prologue, I'll give it another look. Are you saying Uncle Brandon was reaching for the sword to end Rickard's suffering, not necessarily to free him? I'm thinking this all might point to someone impersonating either Rickard or Brandon. An FM? We all know how stupid it was for them to both make the same mistake and go to KL and accuse the Crown Prince of wrongdoing. Shades of Ned right there. If Ramsay had to make Mance a cloak from the skins of the whores, then I think that means Mance cannot skinchange. It does appear that Ramsay wants to make Mance just like a Bolton in that since they cannot warg they wear the actual fur skins of wolves. I think this wearing of skins is a way to mock the Stark warg ability. That Mance's skins are whores is an even deeper insult...almost as if he's acknowledging Jon's ability to skinchange, but since he's a bastard his mother was a whore. I do think Brandon wanted to either free or at the very least end Rickard's suffering. He was unable to do so, because he was contained by the Tyroshi strangling machine. The machine itself may be symbolic of something else, but I have no ideas right now, because I can only think of the men Jon had readied for the purpose of killing Mance/Rattleshirt. I think Brandon and Rickard really did die in Kings Landing, but I also still like the idea that a resurrected Brandon fathered Jon. |
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Post by Melifeather on Oct 31, 2017 17:28:34 GMT
More in a bit, but in the pink letter, Ramsay (?) says "If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell." Very obvious this refers to skinchanging/Varamyr Sixskins. Is GRRM saying Mance was a skinchanger as talented as Varamyr? Old Turtle obviously wants us to associate caged Mance with Varamyr's prologue, I'll give it another look. Are you saying Uncle Brandon was reaching for the sword to end Rickard's suffering, not necessarily to free him? I'm thinking this all might point to someone impersonating either Rickard or Brandon. An FM? We all know how stupid it was for them to both make the same mistake and go to KL and accuse the Crown Prince of wrongdoing. Shades of Ned right there. If Ramsay had to make Mance a cloak from the skins of the whores, then I think that means Mance cannot skinchange. It does appear that Ramsay wants to make Mance just like a Bolton in that since they cannot warg they wear the actual fur skins of wolves. I think this wearing of skins is a way to mock the Stark warg ability. That Mance's skins are whores is an even deeper insult...almost as if he's acknowledging Jon's ability to skinchange, but since he's a bastard (and Mance is a bastard) their mothers were whores. I do think Brandon wanted to either free or at the very least end Rickard's suffering. He was unable to do so, because he was contained by the Tyroshi strangling machine. The machine itself may be symbolic of something else, but I have no ideas right now, because I can only think of the men Jon had readied for the purpose of killing Mance/Rattleshirt. I think Brandon and Rickard really did die in Kings Landing, but I also still like the idea that a resurrected Brandon fathered Jon. |
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A fake suicide, a mistress, a child, a doppelgänger, a conspiracy to commit murder, etc
