Post by Melifeather on Aug 7, 2018 20:35:29 GMT
We are introduced to Ned's fever dream after he is injured in a confrontation with Jaime and his men, when Ned and his men exit Chataya's brothel. The details of this attack show up in his fever dream, most notably his last lucid vision of the Red Keep walls turning red with blood before passing out. I have no doubt that some of Ned's men died at the tower of joy. What I do doubt is the location of the tower, and that Lyanna was there.
Ned's fever dream is a combination of multiple events. Some may have happened early on in the Rebellion, some happened afterward, and some occurred immediately prior to his injuries by Jaime. Add a little symbolism into the mix and you get the dream.
Ned does having waking moments where he's comparing the details of the "old" dream to real life, like losing the lives of five of his men. He repeatedly names Martyn Cassel, but the rest of his men may not have perished at the same location as Martyn as indicated by Ned's thoughts that he knew their faces as well as his own once, but the years leech at a man's memories:
He dreamt an old dream, of three knights in white cloaks, and a tower long fallen, and Lyanna in her bed of blood. In the dream his friends rode with him, as they had in life. Proud Martyn Cassel, Jory’s father; faithful Theo Wull; Ethan Glover, who had been Brandon’s squire; Ser Mark Ryswell, soft of speech and gentle of heart; the crannogman, Howland Reed; Lord Dustin on his great red stallion. Ned had known their faces as well as he knew his own once, but the years leech at a man’s memories, even those he has vowed never to forget. In the dream they were only shadows, grey wraiths on horses made of mist.
Ned's fever dream ends with his sword fight with Arthur being interrupted by Lyanna's scream of "Eddard", and then he is awoken by Vayon Poole. The dream doesn't actually include any details about pulling the tower down, nor making the cairns. What I find extremely interesting is that nowhere in the text does anyone have any waking recollection where the tower of joy is located. We assume it's in Dorne in the red mountains, because that’s how Ned sees it in his dream, but remember his last waking thought was of the Red Keep's walls turning red with blood. Having the Red Keep turn red with blood is an obvious nod to the Sack of Kings Landing where there was a great slaughter of people who were tricked into opening the gates.
It would have to be his grandfather, for Jory’s father was buried far to the south. Martyn Cassel had perished with the rest. Ned had pulled the tower down afterward, and used its bloody stones to build eight cairns upon the ridge. It was said that Rhaegar had named that place the tower of joy, but for Ned it was a bitter memory. They had been seven against three, yet only two had lived to ride away; Eddard Stark himself and the little crannogman, Howland Reed. He did not think it omened well that he should dream that dream again after so many years.
When Ned thinks of Martyn Cassel as being "buried far to the south" we are tempted to believe this means south of where Ned is currently sitting in Kings Landing, but the context is about where to bury Rory Cassel. Ned said Rory would want to be buried at Winterfell with his grandfather, because obviously his father is buried further south than Winterfell.
GRRM has written a magic trick - a slight of hand that persuades the reader to follow a misdirect. Magic tricks look implausible, but there are real hidden things going on in the background while our attention is diverted.
It's not a dream that he's dreamed for awhile, so it is an "old" dream. He wonders if its a bad omen, so perhaps when he had the dream before - many years ago - was it a premonition that came true? Prophecy is open to interpretation until it happens, and then in retrospect you see how it applied to real life.
The Red Keep's bloody walls appearing as the red mountains of Dorne is one such example. Ned's van arrived after the gates of Kings Landing were already open. The Lannisters were busy sacking the city, and it would have looked like a bloody slaughter. Follow this up with the murders of Elia, Aegon, and Rhaenys, and its understandable that Ned would rather not remember these unspeakable acts of violence, so in his dreams Elia and her children become the tower of joy in Dorne. (because Elia was from Dorne)
I think its important to note that the walls of the Red Keep were red with the blood of a slaughter, because the people of Kings Landing and the Red Keep were people who were tricked. It’s important, because it implies that the reason Ned's men were slaughtered was because they were also tricked.
My thoughts about the people of Kings Landing being tricked brings to mind Theon's taking of Moat Cailin. Ramsay sent Theon to parley with the Ironborn holding the tower, offering food and safe passage if they surrender unarmed. The appearance that the Ironborn are even "holding" the tower is tenuous at best. Inside all the men are either diseased, starving, dying, or already dead. Their position is a magic trick - its the power of suggestion - a slight of hand. Theon convinces them to "surrender" and come out, but Ramsay's promises are also a trick, and he has the men killed and flayed with their bodies displayed along the causeway. All this "tricking" going on should be our clue that the tower of joy is also a big red trick!
To reiterate why I think Ned's fever dream substitutes Dorne as being the location of the tower of joy is because Elia, Rhaenys, and Aegon are Dornish, and they were slaughtered in Maegor’s holdfast - the real tower of joy. Notice that GRRM doesn't capitalize the name in the text. If it was an actual tower in the Prince's Pass he'd capitalize it as The Tower of Joy - not the tower of joy.
King Maegor I was a cruel man who craved violence, death, and absolute mastery over all he deemed his. His savagery in the field and his harshness toward defeated enemies was frequently remarked upon. He had six wives, with the last three known as the Black Brides. Isn't that interesting that Maegor and his six wives make seven in the tower, with three of them known as Black Brides? Also notable is how Maegor's physique is described as "bull-like". After construction of the tower was complete, he killed everyone who had labored on it. A real tower of joy indeed.
Quotes listed in the wiki about Maegor:
Maegor, the First of His Name, came to the throne after the sudden death of his brother, King Aenys, in the year 42 AC. He is better remembered as Maegor the Cruel, and it was a well-earned sobriquet, for no crueler king ever sat the Iron Throne. His reign began with blood and ended in blood as well.
—writings of Maester Yandel
What demon possessed him none could say. Even today, some give thanks that his tyranny was a short one, for who knows how many noble houses might have vanished forever simply to state his desire.
—writings of Maester Yandel
Aegon the Conqueror had commanded it built. His son Maegor the Cruel had seen it completed. Afterward he had taken the heads of every stonemason, woodworker, and builder who had labored on it. Only the blood of the dragon would ever know the secrets of the fortress the Dragonlords had built, he vowed.
—thoughts of Catelyn Stark
King Maegor wanted no rats in his own walls, if you take my meaning. He did require a means of secret egress, should he ever be trapped by his enemies, but that door does not connect with any other passages.
—Varys to Tyrion Lannister
What did she care what Maegor the Cruel had decreed three hundred years ago? Instead of taking the swords out of the hands of the faithful, he should have used them for his own ends.[23]
—thoughts of Cersei Lannister
What are the secrets of the fortress that only dragonlords know about? Varys seems to know some of it, and it's hinted at that its about saving children - at least that is his confessed motivation for killing Kevan and Pycelle.
Maegor's Holdfast was also where Cersei took refuge with all the women of the Red Keep during the Battle of the Blackwater. It's a castle within a castle, complete with it's own moat and drawbridge. She enlisted Ser Illyn to guard the door, but his real purpose was so that he could execute the women instead of being subjected to the enemy if they breached the tower, and did worse things to them like rape and torture before death.
When Ned goes to see Robert in his bloody bed inside the royal apartments in Maegor's Holdfast - it's a replay of when Ned arrived during the Sack. There were three Kingsguard guarding Robert. Ser Boros Blount guarded the far end of the bridge. Ser Preston Greenfield stood at the bottom of the steps, and Ser Barristan Selmy waited at the door of the king’s bedchamber. Is it possible that Ned and his men came across Hightower, Dayne, and Whent in the same positions as Blount, Greenfield, and Selmy?
King Aerys was holding Elia and her children hostage. If anyone commanded the Kingsguard to do anything it would have been to guard Elia and her children locked in the royal apartments of Maegor's Holdfast. Ned and his men had to cut through the Kingsguard in an effort to save Elia and her children before Gregor and Armory got to the top. The Kingsguard wouldn’t have simply stood down. They obviously knew the city was under attack, but they could not leave their positions. Being separated along the way to the apartments like Blount, Greenfield, and Selmy were, would have left them vulnerable to a group attack. If Arthur was the one outside the door of the royal apartments, then he would’ve fought Ned in single combat. Ned was still looking for Lyanna. He didn’t know who was in the tower, but if he believed Rhaegar had taken his sister, then he had to have assumed he’d find her inside. I suspect that Ned suffered post traumatic syndrome disorder from what he saw inside Maegor's holdfast after the Sack. The "tower long fallen" is his defeat of the Kingsguard guarding Maegor's Holdfast - a castle within a castle - during the Sack. The city "fell" and so did the men protecting the tower.
When Tywin is murdered, the Tower of the Hand is reduced to a shell by Jaime and his men looking for Tyrion. Cersei later commands the tower be burned down, because she cannot stand to look at it, and has her pyromancers place 50 pots of wildfire inside the tower to burn it down. Cersei's feelings about the Tower of the Hand - the not being able to look at it - are a reflection about how Ned feels about Maegor's Holdfast, aka the tower of joy.
Catelyn's abduction of Tyrion is the parallel to Lyanna's abduction. Jaime reducing the Tower of the Hand to a shell looking for Tyrion would be the parallel to Ned tearing down a tower looking for Lyanna. If Ned and his men had to fight the Kingsguard at Maegor's Holdfast to get inside only to find a raped and dead Elia, a raped and dead Rhaenys, and an infant with a crushed skull - think of how frantically he would have searched the tower for Lyanna! Is it any wonder then that the memories were so bitter that Ned condensed the things he could not bear to look at into a metaphor? He figuratively tore that tower down in his search, and he lost some good men in the attack, which explains how he "built" eight cairns with the bloody stones. Eight people died, and who's to say that Ned isn't including Elia, Rhaenys, and Aegon in the count? I think there's some wiggle room for some of his men to die in other places, such as the Battle of the Bells and at the Trident. He remembers he and Howland riding away, but they were riding away from Kings Landing after his fight with Robert over Elia and her children.
Did he find Lyanna in Maegor's Holdfast? Not in the royal apartments or in any part of the tower itself, because when Jaime searched the Tower of the Hand for Tyrion, he was already long gone, however recall that Tyrion was smuggled out in a wine barrel on a ship. If Tyrion was held in the black cells and escaped, then I believe Ned found Lyanna down in the black cells, and he had her body packed in a barrel of salt to be shipped home. Pickled or salted in a barrel like kippers, Craster's kippers - the red herring. "Craster's kippers" is an old Heresy discussion regarding Craster's sons and whether or not they were sacrificed to the Others by leaving them out in the freezing cold, which in turn should raise our suspicions that Aerys was also sacrificing children under Maegor's Holdfast, burning them alive with fire in an attempt to hatch dragons.
Ned's fever dream is a combination of multiple events. Some may have happened early on in the Rebellion, some happened afterward, and some occurred immediately prior to his injuries by Jaime. Add a little symbolism into the mix and you get the dream.
Ned does having waking moments where he's comparing the details of the "old" dream to real life, like losing the lives of five of his men. He repeatedly names Martyn Cassel, but the rest of his men may not have perished at the same location as Martyn as indicated by Ned's thoughts that he knew their faces as well as his own once, but the years leech at a man's memories:
He dreamt an old dream, of three knights in white cloaks, and a tower long fallen, and Lyanna in her bed of blood. In the dream his friends rode with him, as they had in life. Proud Martyn Cassel, Jory’s father; faithful Theo Wull; Ethan Glover, who had been Brandon’s squire; Ser Mark Ryswell, soft of speech and gentle of heart; the crannogman, Howland Reed; Lord Dustin on his great red stallion. Ned had known their faces as well as he knew his own once, but the years leech at a man’s memories, even those he has vowed never to forget. In the dream they were only shadows, grey wraiths on horses made of mist.
Ned's fever dream ends with his sword fight with Arthur being interrupted by Lyanna's scream of "Eddard", and then he is awoken by Vayon Poole. The dream doesn't actually include any details about pulling the tower down, nor making the cairns. What I find extremely interesting is that nowhere in the text does anyone have any waking recollection where the tower of joy is located. We assume it's in Dorne in the red mountains, because that’s how Ned sees it in his dream, but remember his last waking thought was of the Red Keep's walls turning red with blood. Having the Red Keep turn red with blood is an obvious nod to the Sack of Kings Landing where there was a great slaughter of people who were tricked into opening the gates.
It would have to be his grandfather, for Jory’s father was buried far to the south. Martyn Cassel had perished with the rest. Ned had pulled the tower down afterward, and used its bloody stones to build eight cairns upon the ridge. It was said that Rhaegar had named that place the tower of joy, but for Ned it was a bitter memory. They had been seven against three, yet only two had lived to ride away; Eddard Stark himself and the little crannogman, Howland Reed. He did not think it omened well that he should dream that dream again after so many years.
When Ned thinks of Martyn Cassel as being "buried far to the south" we are tempted to believe this means south of where Ned is currently sitting in Kings Landing, but the context is about where to bury Rory Cassel. Ned said Rory would want to be buried at Winterfell with his grandfather, because obviously his father is buried further south than Winterfell.
GRRM has written a magic trick - a slight of hand that persuades the reader to follow a misdirect. Magic tricks look implausible, but there are real hidden things going on in the background while our attention is diverted.
It's not a dream that he's dreamed for awhile, so it is an "old" dream. He wonders if its a bad omen, so perhaps when he had the dream before - many years ago - was it a premonition that came true? Prophecy is open to interpretation until it happens, and then in retrospect you see how it applied to real life.
The Red Keep's bloody walls appearing as the red mountains of Dorne is one such example. Ned's van arrived after the gates of Kings Landing were already open. The Lannisters were busy sacking the city, and it would have looked like a bloody slaughter. Follow this up with the murders of Elia, Aegon, and Rhaenys, and its understandable that Ned would rather not remember these unspeakable acts of violence, so in his dreams Elia and her children become the tower of joy in Dorne. (because Elia was from Dorne)
I think its important to note that the walls of the Red Keep were red with the blood of a slaughter, because the people of Kings Landing and the Red Keep were people who were tricked. It’s important, because it implies that the reason Ned's men were slaughtered was because they were also tricked.
My thoughts about the people of Kings Landing being tricked brings to mind Theon's taking of Moat Cailin. Ramsay sent Theon to parley with the Ironborn holding the tower, offering food and safe passage if they surrender unarmed. The appearance that the Ironborn are even "holding" the tower is tenuous at best. Inside all the men are either diseased, starving, dying, or already dead. Their position is a magic trick - its the power of suggestion - a slight of hand. Theon convinces them to "surrender" and come out, but Ramsay's promises are also a trick, and he has the men killed and flayed with their bodies displayed along the causeway. All this "tricking" going on should be our clue that the tower of joy is also a big red trick!
To reiterate why I think Ned's fever dream substitutes Dorne as being the location of the tower of joy is because Elia, Rhaenys, and Aegon are Dornish, and they were slaughtered in Maegor’s holdfast - the real tower of joy. Notice that GRRM doesn't capitalize the name in the text. If it was an actual tower in the Prince's Pass he'd capitalize it as The Tower of Joy - not the tower of joy.
King Maegor I was a cruel man who craved violence, death, and absolute mastery over all he deemed his. His savagery in the field and his harshness toward defeated enemies was frequently remarked upon. He had six wives, with the last three known as the Black Brides. Isn't that interesting that Maegor and his six wives make seven in the tower, with three of them known as Black Brides? Also notable is how Maegor's physique is described as "bull-like". After construction of the tower was complete, he killed everyone who had labored on it. A real tower of joy indeed.
Quotes listed in the wiki about Maegor:
Maegor, the First of His Name, came to the throne after the sudden death of his brother, King Aenys, in the year 42 AC. He is better remembered as Maegor the Cruel, and it was a well-earned sobriquet, for no crueler king ever sat the Iron Throne. His reign began with blood and ended in blood as well.
—writings of Maester Yandel
What demon possessed him none could say. Even today, some give thanks that his tyranny was a short one, for who knows how many noble houses might have vanished forever simply to state his desire.
—writings of Maester Yandel
Aegon the Conqueror had commanded it built. His son Maegor the Cruel had seen it completed. Afterward he had taken the heads of every stonemason, woodworker, and builder who had labored on it. Only the blood of the dragon would ever know the secrets of the fortress the Dragonlords had built, he vowed.
—thoughts of Catelyn Stark
King Maegor wanted no rats in his own walls, if you take my meaning. He did require a means of secret egress, should he ever be trapped by his enemies, but that door does not connect with any other passages.
—Varys to Tyrion Lannister
What did she care what Maegor the Cruel had decreed three hundred years ago? Instead of taking the swords out of the hands of the faithful, he should have used them for his own ends.[23]
—thoughts of Cersei Lannister
What are the secrets of the fortress that only dragonlords know about? Varys seems to know some of it, and it's hinted at that its about saving children - at least that is his confessed motivation for killing Kevan and Pycelle.
Maegor's Holdfast was also where Cersei took refuge with all the women of the Red Keep during the Battle of the Blackwater. It's a castle within a castle, complete with it's own moat and drawbridge. She enlisted Ser Illyn to guard the door, but his real purpose was so that he could execute the women instead of being subjected to the enemy if they breached the tower, and did worse things to them like rape and torture before death.
When Ned goes to see Robert in his bloody bed inside the royal apartments in Maegor's Holdfast - it's a replay of when Ned arrived during the Sack. There were three Kingsguard guarding Robert. Ser Boros Blount guarded the far end of the bridge. Ser Preston Greenfield stood at the bottom of the steps, and Ser Barristan Selmy waited at the door of the king’s bedchamber. Is it possible that Ned and his men came across Hightower, Dayne, and Whent in the same positions as Blount, Greenfield, and Selmy?
King Aerys was holding Elia and her children hostage. If anyone commanded the Kingsguard to do anything it would have been to guard Elia and her children locked in the royal apartments of Maegor's Holdfast. Ned and his men had to cut through the Kingsguard in an effort to save Elia and her children before Gregor and Armory got to the top. The Kingsguard wouldn’t have simply stood down. They obviously knew the city was under attack, but they could not leave their positions. Being separated along the way to the apartments like Blount, Greenfield, and Selmy were, would have left them vulnerable to a group attack. If Arthur was the one outside the door of the royal apartments, then he would’ve fought Ned in single combat. Ned was still looking for Lyanna. He didn’t know who was in the tower, but if he believed Rhaegar had taken his sister, then he had to have assumed he’d find her inside. I suspect that Ned suffered post traumatic syndrome disorder from what he saw inside Maegor's holdfast after the Sack. The "tower long fallen" is his defeat of the Kingsguard guarding Maegor's Holdfast - a castle within a castle - during the Sack. The city "fell" and so did the men protecting the tower.
When Tywin is murdered, the Tower of the Hand is reduced to a shell by Jaime and his men looking for Tyrion. Cersei later commands the tower be burned down, because she cannot stand to look at it, and has her pyromancers place 50 pots of wildfire inside the tower to burn it down. Cersei's feelings about the Tower of the Hand - the not being able to look at it - are a reflection about how Ned feels about Maegor's Holdfast, aka the tower of joy.
Catelyn's abduction of Tyrion is the parallel to Lyanna's abduction. Jaime reducing the Tower of the Hand to a shell looking for Tyrion would be the parallel to Ned tearing down a tower looking for Lyanna. If Ned and his men had to fight the Kingsguard at Maegor's Holdfast to get inside only to find a raped and dead Elia, a raped and dead Rhaenys, and an infant with a crushed skull - think of how frantically he would have searched the tower for Lyanna! Is it any wonder then that the memories were so bitter that Ned condensed the things he could not bear to look at into a metaphor? He figuratively tore that tower down in his search, and he lost some good men in the attack, which explains how he "built" eight cairns with the bloody stones. Eight people died, and who's to say that Ned isn't including Elia, Rhaenys, and Aegon in the count? I think there's some wiggle room for some of his men to die in other places, such as the Battle of the Bells and at the Trident. He remembers he and Howland riding away, but they were riding away from Kings Landing after his fight with Robert over Elia and her children.
Did he find Lyanna in Maegor's Holdfast? Not in the royal apartments or in any part of the tower itself, because when Jaime searched the Tower of the Hand for Tyrion, he was already long gone, however recall that Tyrion was smuggled out in a wine barrel on a ship. If Tyrion was held in the black cells and escaped, then I believe Ned found Lyanna down in the black cells, and he had her body packed in a barrel of salt to be shipped home. Pickled or salted in a barrel like kippers, Craster's kippers - the red herring. "Craster's kippers" is an old Heresy discussion regarding Craster's sons and whether or not they were sacrificed to the Others by leaving them out in the freezing cold, which in turn should raise our suspicions that Aerys was also sacrificing children under Maegor's Holdfast, burning them alive with fire in an attempt to hatch dragons.
