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Post by Melifeather on Feb 23, 2016 4:17:04 GMT
I had a nutty (and I mean nutty) idea about diamond possibly being the mystery material behind one of these ancient swords - got caught up in the mechanics of formation, particularly impact and Carbonado diamonds. Probably nothing, but it was interesting to look at the properties/appearance of diamond in juxtaposition to obsidian. Oh, I absolutely could believe that Dawn is a diamond blade. I think I read your post about this.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Feb 23, 2016 17:23:08 GMT
I had a nutty (and I mean nutty) idea about diamond possibly being the mystery material behind one of these ancient swords - got caught up in the mechanics of formation, particularly impact and Carbonado diamonds. Probably nothing, but it was interesting to look at the properties/appearance of diamond in juxtaposition to obsidian.Could you refresh our memories on those? I have a vague recollection of the differences in properties, but I'd love to revisit them, when you can.
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Post by Maester Flagons on Feb 25, 2016 3:17:35 GMT
I have an "interesting" observation about the Others swords too. Electrostatic charge. From AGOT prologue.... the duel
"His blade was white with frost; the Other’s danced with pale blue light." "When the blades touched, the steel shattered" "He found what was left of the sword a few feet away, the end splintered and twisted like a tree struck by lightning."
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Feb 25, 2016 14:12:03 GMT
Oh, I absolutely could believe that Dawn is a diamond blade. I think I read your post about this. Could you refresh our memories on those? I have a vague recollection of the differences in properties, but I'd love to revisit them, when you can. I'll grab that post from elsewhere and repost here. With pictures!
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Post by Maester Flagons on Mar 17, 2016 3:29:35 GMT
On the inside of the institute of the House of Black and White, we get a different story from what I think is the truth. Still a story of death, but not quite the same as what is being preached There, in the temple, anyone can wonder in to find death. Lounge about, drink the "kool-aid" and pass on peacefully. Their belongings; money, clothes, and jewelry are taken afterward, but no initial payment is required.
And then the faces are taken. These faces hold something of the former life of whom they belonged to. As seen when Arya receives the face of the ugly girl. So the Faceless Men are pretty much keeping the dead alive in their hall of faces. This hall of faces is an in between place for whoever dies inside the sanctuary. (Like a weirwood, or an ice man, or a wolf, etc.) And so, these many lives are being recycled. Come on now. That's not true death. It's not what the kindly man preaches.
And that brings to mind a few questions and thoughts. If the life force of the person behind the mask is still intact, does the person wearing the faces prolong their own life? Has the kindly man lived well beyond the normal life span? (Bloodraven much?) Is the skull face he reveals to Arya at their first meeting his true face? I think the answers to these questions are, yes. And the kindly man knows all the stories behind the faces, like the story of the ugly girl, because he has lived throughout all the years the faces have been collected. He is using the death of others for life. The ones who die freely in the HoBaW pay the price. The magic is in the kool-aid.
All throughout the Song we read about those who live a new life in another host or prolong their own life in their own body, and I think the Faceless Men are no different.
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Post by Melifeather on Mar 17, 2016 17:37:27 GMT
On the inside of the institute of the House of Black and White, we get a different story from what I think is the truth. Still a story of death, but not quite the same as what is being preached There, in the temple, anyone can wonder in to find death. Lounge about, drink the "kool-aid" and pass on peacefully. Their belongings; money, clothes, and jewelry are taken afterward, but no initial payment is required. And then the faces are taken. These faces hold something of the former life of whom they belonged to. As seen when Arya receives the face of the ugly girl. So the Faceless Men are pretty much keeping the dead alive in their hall of faces. This hall of faces is an in between place for whoever dies inside the sanctuary. (Like a weirwood, or an ice man, or a wolf, etc.) And so, these many lives are being recycled. Come on now. That's not true death. It's not what the kindly man preaches. And that brings to mind a few questions and thoughts. If the life force of the person behind the mask is still intact, does the person wearing the faces prolong their own life? Has the kindly man lived well beyond the normal life span? (Bloodraven much?) Is the skull face he reveals to Arya at their first meeting his true face? I think the answers to these questions are, yes. And the kindly man knows all the stories behind the faces, like the story of the ugly girl, because he has lived throughout all the years the faces have been collected. He is using the death of others for life. The ones who die freely in the HoBaW pay the price. The magic is in the kool-aid. All throughout the Song we read about those who live a new life in another host or prolong their own life in their own body, and I think the Faceless Men are no different. To me, this is not a secret. It has been my understanding all along. We were instructed that the bones remember, and I took that to mean that the spirits of the dead were trapped in the bones unless the bones were broken and the spirit released. The Starks in the crypts are trapped. The dead in the north are trapped. In the south the spirits are probably released earlier since the warmer climate increases the rate of decay. This knowledge is likely the reason why the Dothraki burn their dead so the spirits can be released and ride the night sky.
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Post by Maester Flagons on Mar 17, 2016 23:31:09 GMT
To me, this is not a secret. It has been my understanding all along. We were instructed that the bones remember, and I took that to mean that the spirits of the dead were trapped in the bones unless the bones were broken and the spirit released. The Starks in the crypts are trapped. The dead in the north are trapped. In the south the spirits are probably released earlier since the warmer climate increases the rate of decay. This knowledge is likely the reason why the Dothraki burn their dead so the spirits can be released and ride the night sky. I don't think it's a secret nor a new observation that the faces harbor the essence of the deceased. But, it's not the bones holding the memories of the dead I'm after. The Faceless Men, at least some of them, using these faces to prolong life is what I'm really pointing out. They are using death for life. Not death for death's sake. And the Sanctum in the temple as similar to the blue heart in the House of the Undying or a skinchanger and their host animal; the trees. The FM have found a way to use the life force for themselves. Save it then extract it. I'd like to liken the faces to wights. Or Craster's boys, even. Or Melisandre's womb. All similar mechanics with different results.
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Post by Melifeather on Mar 18, 2016 0:06:01 GMT
To me, this is not a secret. It has been my understanding all along. We were instructed that the bones remember, and I took that to mean that the spirits of the dead were trapped in the bones unless the bones were broken and the spirit released. The Starks in the crypts are trapped. The dead in the north are trapped. In the south the spirits are probably released earlier since the warmer climate increases the rate of decay. This knowledge is likely the reason why the Dothraki burn their dead so the spirits can be released and ride the night sky. I don't think it's a secret nor a new observation that the faces harbor the essence of the deceased. But, it's not the bones holding the memories of the dead I'm after. The Faceless Men, at least some of them, using these faces to prolong life is what I'm really pointing out. They are using death for life. Not death for death's sake. And the Sanctum in the temple as similar to the blue heart in the House of the Undying or a skinchanger and their host animal; the trees. The FM have found a way to use the life force for themselves. Save it then extract it. I'd like to liken the faces to wights. Or Craster's boys, even. Or Melisandre's womb. All similar mechanics with different results. You are pointing out that they aren't selfless people helping those in pain, but rather putting up a false front for personal gain? If that's what you meant, then I also agree. Anything to do with magic can be and will be abused by men. The House of Black and White takes advantage of all, without assisting one side over the other. They'll take anyone's coin to bring death. Only life will pay for death...or is it...only death will pay for life...or is it both? The price of a long life is death afterward, but a sacrificial death can also pay for a resurrected life. Jaqen told Arya he would kill 3 people of her choosing since she saved 3 people. She owed a payment to the fire god and basically Jaqen was representing death's interests, but wasn't the fire god about to get those 3 for free? Chiswyck, Weese, and symbolically Jaqen paid for Jaqen, Rorge, and Biter. Later we have Jaqen, Rorge, and Biter kill 4 guards thereby assisting Arya to free at least a hundred northern captives. How were those 4 guards enough payment? I am thinking that he knew Arya would repay that bill in full.
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Post by freyfamilyreunion on Mar 24, 2016 16:37:13 GMT
I suppose this is the best place to put my latest observation. Areo Hotah roughly translates to White Mars. Areo means pertaining to Ares or Mars, while Hotah is a Sioux name for White.
Around 1999, Brian Aldiss (a Hugo and Nebula award winner, so you know he is on GRRM's radar) and Sir Roger Penrose a theoretical mathematician and physicist wrote a book called White Mars which dealt with failed attempt at a utopian world on the planet Mars.
Interestingly enough GRRM has a Sir Penrose of his own in the series, Sir Cornay Penrose whose sigil is two interlocked quills. In ACOK Sir Penrose is killed by one of the shadow creatures Melisandre conjures probably from Stannis' subconscious. At the time of ACOK, Sir Roger Penrose, a prolific writer, had just come out with a book, the Shadows of the Mind. Coincidence?
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Post by Melifeather on Mar 24, 2016 17:19:18 GMT
I suppose this is the best place to put my latest observation. Areo Hotah roughly translates to White Mars. Areo means pertaining to Ares or Mars, while Hotah is a Sioux name for White. Around 1999, Brian Aldiss (a Hugo and Nebula award winner, so you know he is on GRRM's radar) and Sir Roger Penrose a theoretical mathematician and physicist wrote a book called White Mars which dealt with failed attempt at a utopian world on the planet Mars. Interestingly enough GRRM has a Sir Penrose of his own in the series, Sir Cornay Penrose whose sigil is two interlocked quills. In ACOK Sir Penrose is killed by one of the shadow creatures Melisandre conjures probably from Stannis' subconscious. At the time of ACOK, Sir Roger Penrose, a prolific writer, had just come out with a book, the Shadows of the Mind. Coincidence? Have you read my chapter summary for The Captain of Guards, which is about Areo Hotah? houseofblackandwhite.freeforums.net/post/53/thread
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Post by Ser Duncan on Mar 24, 2016 18:22:11 GMT
I suppose this is the best place to put my latest observation. Areo Hotah roughly translates to White Mars. Areo means pertaining to Ares or Mars, while Hotah is a Sioux name for White. Around 1999, Brian Aldiss (a Hugo and Nebula award winner, so you know he is on GRRM's radar) and Sir Roger Penrose a theoretical mathematician and physicist wrote a book called White Mars which dealt with failed attempt at a utopian world on the planet Mars. Interestingly enough GRRM has a Sir Penrose of his own in the series, Sir Cornay Penrose whose sigil is two interlocked quills. In ACOK Sir Penrose is killed by one of the shadow creatures Melisandre conjures probably from Stannis' subconscious. At the time of ACOK, Sir Roger Penrose, a prolific writer, had just come out with a book, the Shadows of the Mind. Coincidence? This could very well be one of Martin's little homages to other writers and cultural references. Good catch!
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Post by Melifeather on Mar 24, 2016 18:37:56 GMT
From Armstark on Westeros:
2 hours ago, Armstark said:
I agree with this and want to add my suspicion that Varys and Littlefinger might be playing a much bigger game than the Game of Thrones - Call it the game of Ice and Fire. Varys plays Fire but Littlefinger is first to act and moves his Stark pieces south, thereby freeing the kids to be picked up by various interested parties.
One to the cave of skulls.
One to the cult of death.
One to the people who eat the dead.
One to the dead.
One for Littlefinger.
Which one does not fit the theme? Or maybe he does.
My response:
Your list above really puts the Stark connection to the dead into perspective. I hadn't really seen it lain out like this before. We assume the Stark kids are positioned "just so". You are not counting Jon Snow? I am thinking he will be resurrected from the dead, so your dead list needs one more.
What do you suppose GRRM is trying to tell us with this symbolism?
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Post by jnr on Mar 25, 2016 15:28:30 GMT
-- conservative columnist David Brooks, who is not talking about RLJ this year, but might as well be
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Post by jnr on Mar 25, 2016 15:30:10 GMT
I also note how similar the above is to Gould's concept of punctuated equilibrium, in evolutionary theory.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Mar 25, 2016 16:30:36 GMT
One to the cave of skulls. One to the cult of death. One to the people who eat the dead. One to the dead. One for Littlefinger.
Which one does not fit the theme? Or maybe he does.I'd say LF does fit the theme. He is instrumental in Ned's death. Without LF betraying Ned with the Gold Cloaks, Ned would be alive. LF had to've, at the very least, guessed his actions would eliminate Ned from the picture. Sure, he may have simply been after getting Cat to be a widow, or the be abandoned by Ned taking the Black, but I don't think he foresaw that it would also ultimately be the death of his beloved Cat. Which his actions are also involved in bringing about. And then there are all the other deaths his actions caused, some on his direct orders. I'd say being made Lord of Harrenhal is in itself a declaration of death is soon to follow, in whatever form it takes. Either the death of the Lord or the death of his cause, or the death of anyone around him. Just look at the track record. You are not counting Jon Snow? I am thinking he will be resurrected from the dead, so your dead list needs one more. Jon certainly is on that list. He's married to an order that gives their lives for the realm. They are not allowed to father children, so their line can't got on -- it's dead. Essentially they are dead men walking, if not literally, although, we may have to put Jon in the latter category if his feeling Cold turns out to be true.
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