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Post by ac on Aug 5, 2016 21:52:52 GMT
Lol I know, crazy stuff. Once the doors opened, the possibilities are endless. All we can do is get into GRRMs head, and I don't think he'd create a story where Bran could go back and change stuff so drastically as to dismiss the reader's understanding of the past. This would explain why we've waited so long for the books!
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Post by ac on Aug 5, 2016 21:55:23 GMT
The "more of the north in him" is our clue of the meddling. Could you add a bit more context around this quote? I'm clearly being a bit slow on the uptake.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 5, 2016 22:07:46 GMT
The "more of the north in him" is our clue of the meddling. Could you add a bit more context around this quote? I'm clearly being a bit slow on the uptake. If you mean "more of the North in him" then that's what Tyrion says about Jon, that he has more of the North in him than his siblings. Which I've always taken to mean that Jon's Father is more northern than the Riverlands and the Tullys, if Lyanna is indeed his mother.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 5, 2016 22:23:52 GMT
I too believed that "more of the North in him" meant two northern parents...even as recently as earlier this afternoon! OK bare with me, because I think I'm onto something and I need your help to work it out. This has to do with inversions, but it also has to do with Bloodraven and Bran. It's about changing the present in order to change the future. The Stark bastard typically gets sent to the Wall and that's where Jon needed to be, so Bloodraven did a baby swap. Technically Bloodraven was playing the Lord Commander like Jon was when Jon swapped Mance and Craster's sons. We have to think in terms of inversions to solve the puzzle. key: Blue = After Rebellion, Red = Robert's RebellionLC Jon SnowLC BloodravenMance King Beyond the Wall Rhaegar The King that Never Was Craster "Stark"Aemon Steelsong - not at the Wall - safe from being killed. "Rhaegar's son" - at the Wall - stabbed at the Wall, dead? May rise to a different sort of life. Monster - at the Wall - rescued from being given to the wood. Pisswater Prince - not at the Wall - killed (in the woods?) You guys with me so far? Leave out the mothers for the time being.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 5, 2016 22:33:34 GMT
Pisswater Prince - not at the Wall - killed (in the woods?) What I'm thinking is Lyanna never had a child, but feverish she was in no condition to explain anything. Maybe min was on to something when she said Bloodraven or Bran got Lyanna to whisper, "Promise me" three times? Then the child that was killed was a Stark bastard fathered on the inversion to Gilly. Anyone have any ideas who Gilly's inversion might be?
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 5, 2016 22:34:38 GMT
Anyone have any ideas who Gilly's inversion might be? Wylla?
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 5, 2016 22:36:00 GMT
The Daynes hold Ned in such high regard because he saved Rhaegar and Ashara's son and took him as his own.
BOOM! By jove I think that's it!
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Post by ac on Aug 5, 2016 22:53:46 GMT
The Daynes hold Ned in such high regard because he saved Rhaegar and Ashara's son and took him as his own. BOOM! By jove I think that's it! Hmm, not sure. I mean it's one thing for Ned to raise someone else's kid but one for which his own son was sacrificed?
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 5, 2016 23:04:13 GMT
The Daynes hold Ned in such high regard because he saved Rhaegar and Ashara's son and took him as his own. BOOM! By jove I think that's it! Hmm, not sure. I mean it's one thing for Ned to raise someone else's kid but one for which his own son was sacrificed? I've got an addition...kind of cracked-pottery, but I actually don't think it's that far fetched. Gilly was Craster's daughter/wife, so maybe, maaay-beee Wylla is Lyanna. The woman in Lyanna's crypt is Ashara, and it was Ashara that Ned found in the tower of joy.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 5, 2016 23:09:09 GMT
More cracked-pottery....Ned Dayne is Lyanna's son, fathered later on of course, and that's why his name is Ned.
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Post by jnr on Aug 6, 2016 0:12:55 GMT
All we can do is get into GRRMs head, and I don't think he'd create a story where Bran could go back and change stuff so drastically as to dismiss the reader's understanding of the past. But is it possible for Bran to enter our dimension, go back in time, and force GRRM to write ASOIAF in a mature and disciplined manner? If reality changes in such a way that a copy of ADOS suddenly appears on my sofa in the next ten minutes, I'm gonna know why...
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Post by Maester Flagons on Aug 6, 2016 0:32:55 GMT
All we can do is get into GRRMs head, and I don't think he'd create a story where Bran could go back and change stuff so drastically as to dismiss the reader's understanding of the past. But is it possible for Bran to enter our dimension, go back in time, and force GRRM to write ASOIAF in a mature and disciplined manner? If reality changes in such a way that a copy of ADOS suddenly appears on my sofa in the next ten minutes, I'm gonna know why... Haha.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 6, 2016 0:39:31 GMT
But is it possible for Bran to enter our dimension, go back in time, and force GRRM to write ASOIAF in a mature and disciplined manner? Didn't you watch the show? "The past is already written; the ink is dry." No changies! No takebacksies!
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 16, 2016 3:35:38 GMT
I posted this thought on Heresy just a little while ago, and am posting here too because it's relevant to Bran and "flying" or traveling into someone's dream:
The definition of flying could be the ability to enter someone's dream, much like Bloodraven did. Bran has already done this to Jon. Jon was dreaming when he saw Bran as a weirwood sapling with three eyes, but this was no wolf dream. I believe Bran sent Jon this dream. Jon was Ghost, but "Ghost the wolf" didn't actually see the sapling. When Bran touched Jon's forehead to demonstrate the third eye, all of a sudden he saw what Ghost was really looking at: the wildling camp, and that he was standing on the edge of a precipice. So the sapling dream was Bran communicating to Jon in the same manner that Bloodraven came to Bran in a dream. Just like Bloodraven, Bran was trying to get Jon to open his third eye. The weirwood sapling dream was not a true wolf dream, because that was not what Ghost was doing at the time. It was Jon that was howling...calling out for his pack mates, because Ghost doesn't speak.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 16, 2016 3:37:00 GMT
More thoughts about Bran and whispering:
A discussion about Euron and how he removes tongues got me thinking what the inversion of this could be? The opposite of course would be "many tongues", which led me to conclude that perhaps Bloodraven would be in possession of many tongues or ways to speak. This would include the true tongue of nature...the trees, rocks, streams, etc that the crows/ravens understand, but it could also refer to the whispering that Bran is practicing through the trees. Yes Bloodraven cautioned Bran to not call his father back from the dead, which implies that it's possible just not advisable, also that the past cannot be changed, however a whispered word in the right ear may be enough to change something in the future. The mummer's show hinted at such a possibility when Bran called out to his father on his way up the steps to the tower of joy, and in the books we have Ned hearing "something" when Bran called out...the true tongue I guess..., but Theon heard Bran as well. Whisper something enough times in someone's ear and they may think the gods are speaking to them. "I'm a godly man!" so spake Craster...who knows, maybe a whispered word in his ear caused him to believe the gods wanted him to sacrifice his sons?
Crippling does seem to be a relatively common condition for greenseers as it does, like you say, heighten the other senses, but if Bloodraven was barely hanging on waiting for him, perhaps he just got tired of waiting? It would be interesting to see if we could go back and maybe find evidence suggesting that words were whispered in his ear to climb to the tower that very day? Or even the love of climbing...since Bran had an affinity for climbing, maybe this affinity was a suggestion whispered in his ear over and over again until he was compelled to take up the practice?
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