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Post by ac on Apr 16, 2016 4:14:25 GMT
Hello everyone. First post so please be gentle! Got a few, hope it's OK to dump them all here. In no particular order: - The Horn of Winter is no more an actual horn than the Hammer of the Waters was an actual hammer
- Speaking of the Hammer of Waters, it was summoned (only once to break the Arm of Dorne) by the CotF on the future site of The Children's Tower i.e. Moat Cailin was constructed later
- Arya will get her revenge but will be in some way responsible for the death of Sansa (and possibly others)
- The Land of Always Winter was once significantly smaller than it currently is (if it existed at all) and the First Men originally settled way north of The Wall (or, more accurately, where it was later built)
- First Men Heroes = CotF Greenseers
- Coldhands is one of the Last Hero's 12 companions warged into a wight
- The Doom was self-inflicted. Summerhall on a massive scale
- A race's ability to reproduce naturally is inversely proportional to natural lifespan. If we believe the Others are at least close to immortal maybe that is why they have to "convert" babies
- From the above you can imply that I think the Others are a separate race
I have more but that will do for now ). Sorry for the brain dump. Would love feedback though.
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Post by Melifeather on Apr 16, 2016 5:41:45 GMT
Hello everyone. First post so please be gentle! Got a few, hope it's OK to dump them all here. In no particular order: - The Horn of Winter is no more an actual horn than the Hammer of the Waters was an actual hammer
- Speaking of the Hammer of Waters, it was summoned (only once to break the Arm of Dorne) by the CotF on the future site of The Children's Tower i.e. Moat Cailin was constructed later
- Arya will get her revenge but will be in some way responsible for the death of Sansa (and possibly others)
- The Land of Always Winter was once significantly smaller than it currently is (if it existed at all) and the First Men originally settled way north of The Wall (or, more accurately, where it was later built)
- First Men Heroes = CotF Greenseers
- Coldhands is one of the Last Hero's 12 companions warged into a wight
- The Doom was self-inflicted. Summerhall on a massive scale
- A race's ability to reproduce naturally is inversely proportional to natural lifespan. If we believe the Others are at least close to immortal maybe that is why they have to "convert" babies
- From the above you can imply that I think the Others are a separate race
I have more but that will do for now ). Sorry for the brain dump. Would love feedback though. Welcome ac to our forum! Glad to see you've made yourself at home. There's a thread started here about the Horn of Joruman that you might enjoy. Here's a link: Joruman and the Horn of Winter
I don't believe anyone has begun a thread on the Hammer, so that would be pretty cool if you wanna start one. There's also a new thread about wights and white walkers, but the rest of your list is pretty much open.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Apr 16, 2016 12:11:51 GMT
Hello everyone. First post so please be gentle! Got a few, hope it's OK to dump them all here. In no particular order: - The Horn of Winter is no more an actual horn than the Hammer of the Waters was an actual hammer
- Speaking of the Hammer of Waters, it was summoned (only once to break the Arm of Dorne) by the CotF on the future site of The Children's Tower i.e. Moat Cailin was constructed later
- Arya will get her revenge but will be in some way responsible for the death of Sansa (and possibly others)
- The Land of Always Winter was once significantly smaller than it currently is (if it existed at all) and the First Men originally settled way north of The Wall (or, more accurately, where it was later built)
- First Men Heroes = CotF Greenseers
- Coldhands is one of the Last Hero's 12 companions warged into a wight
- The Doom was self-inflicted. Summerhall on a massive scale
- A race's ability to reproduce naturally is inversely proportional to natural lifespan. If we believe the Others are at least close to immortal maybe that is why they have to "convert" babies
- From the above you can imply that I think the Others are a separate race
I have more but that will do for now ). Sorry for the brain dump. Would love feedback though. Welcome The "bold" ones are the ones I'd like to hear the most about, but these are all great. As Melifeather said, you're welcome to start a thread about any of them, or join in on an existing thread! Some original ideas here, which is awesome. Question on the last two bullets: If the Others are close to immortal, are you saying gestation takes longer? Meaning it's not the usual 9 months? Personally would love to jump into a thread that discussed this!
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Post by Ser Duncan on Apr 16, 2016 15:20:28 GMT
First Men Heroes = CotF Greenseers Welcome ac! Can I ask you explain this one a bit. Do you mean the FM from the story of the Last Hero? And do they equal greenseers in abilities or do you mean they were the CotF's greenseers?
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Post by darksister1001 on Apr 16, 2016 15:36:37 GMT
Y'all are getting all technical and I was just gonna make a joke about blowing in the nose of the girl to make their inny an outty.
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Post by Maester Flagons on Apr 16, 2016 15:53:19 GMT
Y'all are getting all technical and I was just gonna make a joke about blowing in the nose of the girl to make their inny and outty.
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Post by ac on Apr 16, 2016 16:12:41 GMT
Thanks Melifeather and Weasel Pie. I did see the other post on the Horn although I feel a bit ashamed throwing my half-baked ideas in with the level of research and thinking those guys seem to have done! Well I'll give my thoughts on the 3 bold points here and if, after hearing my wishy-washy reasoning, you're still interested I can start a thread. Arya will get her revenge but will be in some way responsible for the death of Sansa (and possibly others) I think one of the biggest themes in the story has been unintended consequences. There are so many examples of a character's (often self-interested) decision having a major cost associated. I'm assuming that Arya will get the revenge she has been wishing for for so long and so I got thinking about what could be the cost. It probably has to be a family member. I believe, like almost everyone else, that Jon and Bran have bigger parts to play. So that leaves Cat, Sansa and Rickon. I'm not even convinced Cat will ever see the kids again, not to mention the already having died once thing. Rickon was 3 or 4 when Arya left with her dad so I can't imagine they were that close (sidenote: if someone can tell what the point of Rickon is that would be great!). By process of elimination I am left with Sansa. I also think it would fit with her storyline that just as it looked like things were picking up again, and she dared to dream of Spring, dead. Coldhands is one of the Last Hero's 12 companions warged into a wight Well, his control of the ravens and the elk he was riding around on suggest warging ability. It's fairly well accepted that a warg can transfer his conciousness from his dying body to another creature. Usually it is said that the "memory of the man slowly fades leaving only the beast" but I have a feeling that the wights are nothing more that empty vessels and so the human conciousness could exist there unchallenged. I've already suggested that I believe the Heroes of that time to have been the name for human greenseers. If he was from the time of the Last Hero it would certainly qualify as "long ago" even to a CofT like Leaf. His clothes make everyone think he is a former Night's Watch but what if the Night's Watch was actually modelled on this group of 13 Heroes? A race's ability to reproduce naturally is inversely proportional to natural lifespan. If we believe the Others are at least close to immortal maybe that is why they have to "convert" babies The idea for this originally came when I heard the CotF say that "the Gods gave them long lives and small numbers" (that is definitely not the exact quote!). I wondered what would cause the lower numbers. I think your idea of a longer gestation period is a valid reason for the CotF's difficulty in growing their numbers. I.e. it takes a long time to "create" something that can live so long. I'd always, quite possibly very wrongly, assumed that the Others were at the least extremely long-living. When I combined this with thinking about why the "conversion" of Craster's sons was necessary, I came up with the theory that it was very difficult or even impossible for Others to reproduce "naturally" and this was because the relationship between lifespan and ability to reproduce of the CotF is universal. So, I hope you aren't too disappointed. I realise that in this case original could definitely by a synonym for terrible!
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Post by Melifeather on Apr 16, 2016 16:33:08 GMT
I feel a bit ashamed throwing my half-baked ideas in with the level of research and thinking those guys seem to have done! We're just practiced. The more you write opinion posts the better you will get at it. We're just old hands around here. Don't let that intimidate you, because you can achieve the same level with practice.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Apr 16, 2016 16:33:21 GMT
Thanks Melifeather and Weasel Pie. I did see the other post on the Horn although I feel a bit ashamed throwing my half-baked ideas in with the level of research and thinking those guys seem to have done! Well I'll give my thoughts on the 3 bold points here and if, after hearing my wishy-washy reasoning, you're still interested I can start a thread. We love new ideas, and you'll get some great feedback here no matter how crazy they are! (Personally, "crazy" ideas are my favorite ones). I have a feeling that the wights are nothing more that empty vessels and so the human conciousness could exist there unchallenged. When we learn that once something has been warged, it's easier to warg the next time, I had a similar bell ring - that the wights can be warged, so to speak. You should add your ideas to the Coldhands thread here. The idea for this originally came when I heard the CotF say that "the Gods gave them long lives and small numbers" (that is definitely not the exact quote!). I wondered what would cause the lower numbers. I think your idea of a longer gestation period is a valid reason for the CotF's difficulty in growing their numbers. I.e. it takes a long time to "create" something that can live so long. I'd always, quite possibly very wrongly, assumed that the Others were at the least extremely long-living. When I combined this with thinking about why the "conversion" of Craster's sons was necessary, I came up with the theory that it was very difficult or even impossible for Others to reproduce "naturally" and this was because the relationship between lifespan and ability to reproduce of the CotF is universal. We have only two examples in the books of "Others" possibly reproducing - the Night's Queen, and when Bran tells us in Chapter One of GoT that women lay with the Others to produce half-human children. Great topic! In other words, all ideas are good ideas here.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Apr 16, 2016 17:03:40 GMT
although I feel a bit ashamed throwing my half-baked ideas in with the level of research and thinking those guys seem to have done! Hah, that's only because we've been waiting and waiting for new books to come out! When you've got this much time between books, we tend to reread them and by doing so, we probably see too much in them. Oh and as for your 'half-baked ideas', well they're anything but. And better thought out then half the dross I've read on the interwebs, so please, feel free to add any idea, big or small to all the things that interest you here. You never know, your seemingly trite* thought might lead to a break through. I've seen it happen loads of times. *I only mean that the idea may seem well-worn and old to you, because you may've had it for a while, but to us, it may be brand new
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Post by ac on Apr 16, 2016 17:18:12 GMT
although I feel a bit ashamed throwing my half-baked ideas in with the level of research and thinking those guys seem to have done! Hah, that's only because we've been waiting and waiting for new books to come out! When you've got this much time between books, we tend to reread them and by doing so, we probably see too much in them. Oh and as for your 'half-baked ideas', well they're anything but. And better thought out then half the dross I've read on the interwebs, so please, feel free to add any idea, big or small to all the things that interest you here. You never know, your seemingly trite* thought might lead to a break through. I've seen it happen loads of times. *I only mean that the idea may seem well-worn and old to you, because you may've had it for a while, but to us, it may be brand new Haha, that is true. When I started reading the series I didn't realise how long it was taking. I might never have started if I'd known! Anyway thanks to you all for the encouragement.
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Post by Maester Flagons on Apr 16, 2016 17:45:55 GMT
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Post by ac on Apr 16, 2016 23:00:18 GMT
When we learn that once something has been warged, it's easier to warg the next time, I had a similar bell ring - that the wights can be warged, so to speak. You should add your ideas to the Coldhands thread here. Yeah, I'll be astonished if warging is not how the Others control the wights. We have only two examples in the books of "Others" possibly reproducing - the Night's Queen, and when Bran tells us in Chapter One of GoT that women lay with the Others to produce half-human children. Great topic! As far as I'm aware there is only a mention of the Night's King "giving his seed" to the Queen rather than reproducing. Interestingly the legend does accuse them of making sacrifices to the Others - more human babies?
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Post by Weasel Pie on Apr 17, 2016 0:06:43 GMT
When we learn that once something has been warged, it's easier to warg the next time, I had a similar bell ring - that the wights can be warged, so to speak. You should add your ideas to the Coldhands thread here. Yeah, I'll be astonished if warging is not how the Others control the wights. We have only two examples in the books of "Others" possibly reproducing - the Night's Queen, and when Bran tells us in Chapter One of GoT that women lay with the Others to produce half-human children. Great topic! As far as I'm aware there is only a mention of the Night's King "giving his seed" to the Queen rather than reproducing. Interestingly the legend does accuse them of making sacrifices to the Others - more human babies? Chapter One GoT so if human/other reproduction is possible, there are all sorts of scenarios. Are the children monsters? Are we supposed to get a clue from Gilly's babe being called Monster? Because we know Craster "sacrificed" his own children. Don't want to get too into it here, maybe a new thread
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Post by ac on Apr 17, 2016 0:12:03 GMT
Sorry, didn't write my post very clearly. I wasn't questioning that reference. Just meant it doesn't mention the Night's Queen reproducing.
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