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Post by snowfyre on Feb 27, 2016 1:08:04 GMT
Your vote, and your reasoning please.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2016 2:14:38 GMT
Oh gosh. The pressure is real. I am going with Asshai'i but I don't have much reasoning behind it. I guess just with how much blood magic is tied to Asshai'i and all that jazz. Plus creepy stuff always comes from there. Like that there are no children there. Probably all got sacrificed for blood magic purposes.Hmm I hear its also a great place to send your naughty kids to if you don't have a babysitter.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Feb 27, 2016 2:45:31 GMT
Urf. I'm going to write in and say it's a combo of Dothraki and Lhazareen....and by "combo" I mean "a word that the Dothraki appropriated from the Lhazareen thousands of years ago during their conquests, and diffused via more conquests throughout the entirety of Essos until it became common language."
IMO the Lhazareen are the Canaanites of Essos, having been dominated and conquered by the Dothraki as the Canaanites were overpowered by the Israelites. The culture itself of the "First Men" may be gone, but the language and traditions live on.
I have absolutely nothing to back this up, fwiw.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Feb 27, 2016 2:52:37 GMT
I'm going to vote for Valyrian because it's Qyburn that recognises that Maggy is a corruption of maegi, and we know Qyburn would speak Valyrian, since he studied magic at the Citadel, and Cersei doesn't speak it at all, not like Tyrion does. Dany recognises the word for what it means too, so it can't be a Dothraki word. But since so much of Essos speaks a corrupted form of Valyrian, it could be one of those words that's pretty much the same from one language to the next.
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Post by snowfyre on Feb 27, 2016 3:01:52 GMT
Tough one, isn't it?
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Post by Maester Flagons on Feb 27, 2016 18:28:24 GMT
Voted write in so I can ramble a bit. The word maegi is most likely not of Valyrian origin. The Dothraki use the word in a very negative way. But Mirri says that the word means wise. Yet Mirri is called gods wife in her culture. She calls herself gods wife and Jorah calls her, "Godswife." So not a Lhazareen word, I think. The Dothraki use the word negatively, so probably not a Dothraki original either. The Dothraki travel far and wide and clash with many cultures, so it's hard to say where they got this word from. The other maegi in the story is Maggy. The one who gave the bloodtelling to Cersei. She is from the East. Not much to go on there. I will guess that the word is from the East.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Feb 27, 2016 19:10:10 GMT
The other maegi in the story is Maggy. The one who gave the bloodtelling to Cersei. She is from the East. Not much to go on there. I will guess that the word is from the East This is where my head is at, but Maggy the Frog might have some Crannog going on. And since I believe the Crannogs are related to the Rhoynish, Iim going with Rhonynish.
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Post by freyfamilyreunion on Mar 1, 2016 19:47:50 GMT
I don't have a guess as of now. But if "maegi" means wise, then I assume that the term Maester may come from the same root word, since they too are known for their wisdom. Perhaps Maegi the feminine and Maester the masculine. There is a title at the Citadel named the Seneschal which mirrors a term used in Mereen as well, which would be another eastern connection.
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Post by snowfyre on Mar 1, 2016 21:51:44 GMT
I don't have a guess as of now. But if "maegi" means wise, then I assume that the term Maester may come from the same root word, since they too are known for their wisdom. Perhaps Maegi the feminine and Maester the masculine. Man, I just made this same suggestion to someone today! Not sure if it's right, but I sure like the idea. The word maegi is most likely not of Valyrian origin. Agreed. But try telling that to the Wiki, which claims (with zero textual support): - High Valyrian is the most likely source language for maegi (pronounced differently from 'Maggy'), which means "wise".
The Dothraki use the word negatively, so probably not a Dothraki original either. Interesting take. I've actually concluded that maegi is, in fact, a Dothraki word. However... it may not originally have been a Dothraki word. It's possible that it's a loanword, adopted from elsewhere. The reason I think it qualifies as a Dothraki word is because (as you quoted above, Maester Flagons ) Dany learns the word from Jhiqui. And Jhiqui is the handmaid whose responsibility was to instruct Dany in the Dothraki language. So, here are the relevant quotes: Is it a sure thing? Nope. But it does make sense, that a new word learned from her instructor in the Dothraki tongue... is probably a Dothraki word. That said... this is also true: The Dothraki travel far and wide and clash with many cultures, so it's hard to say where they got this word from. The other maegi in the story is Maggy. The one who gave the bloodtelling to Cersei. She is from the East. Not much to go on there. I will guess that the word is from the East. And Maggy the Frog is probably not Dothraki. In fact, the common thread tying Maggy to Mirri (besides similar names)... is that they are practitioners of bloodmagic. So it would make sense if the word maegi had something to do with that. All that said, I have a related theory regarding the Dothraki that would make all this a bit more intriguing.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Mar 1, 2016 22:09:56 GMT
But try telling that to the Wiki, which claims (with zero textual support): - High Valyrian is the most likely source language for maegi (pronounced differently from 'Maggy'), which means "wise".
Perhaps Maegi the feminine and Maester the masculine. *like* and given the relationship between Marwyn and Mirri, this works well in context I have a related theory regarding the Dothraki that would make all this a bit more intriguing. and I can read this when?
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Post by snowfyre on Mar 1, 2016 22:31:12 GMT
and I can read this when? Right now! The very short version is... that the Dothraki and their culture were once Asshai'i - or originated in that area. If that were true, then the word maegi might be both Dothraki and Asshai'i. And the theory could explain a handful of other things, as well. Things like: - why the Dothraki tell tales of ghost grass "down in the Shadowlands beyond Asshai"
- the presence of ugly statues in Vaes Dothrak, said to have come from the Shadowlands
- remarkable linguistic correspondence of certain Dothraki words with prophecies reportedly "written" in Asshai (e.g, shierak qiya = "Bleeding Star")
- cultural taboos/prohibitions against bloodmagic (related to their deep-seated fear of maegi)
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Post by Weasel Pie on Mar 1, 2016 23:17:14 GMT
and I can read this when? Right now! The very short version is... that the Dothraki and their culture were once Asshai'i - or originated in that area. If that were true, then the word maegi might be both Dothraki and Asshai'i. And the theory could explain a handful of other things, as well. Things like: - why the Dothraki tell tales of ghost grass "down in the Shadowlands beyond Asshai"
- the presence of ugly statues in Vaes Dothrak, said to have come from the Shadowlands
- remarkable linguistic correspondence of certain Dothraki words with prophecies reportedly "written" in Asshai (e.g, shierak qiya = "Bleeding Star")
- cultural taboos/prohibitions against bloodmagic (related to their deep-seated fear of maegi)
It might be time to break out the maps. Do you remember what we started talking about way back in the day? Anyway, not to derail, but if Planetos is riddled with tunnels like I believe it is, we could conjecture some even deeper connections.
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Post by Melifeather on Mar 1, 2016 23:19:59 GMT
Her brother Viserys gifted her with three handmaids. Dany knew they had cost him nothing; Illyrio no doubt had provided the girls. Irri and Jhiqui were copper-skinned Dothraki with black hair and almond-shaped eyes, Doreah a fair-haired, blue-eyed Lysene girl. "These are no common servants, sweet sister," her brother told her as they were brought forward one by one. "Illyrio and I selected them personally for you. Irri will teach you riding, Jhiqui the Dothraki tongue, and Doreah will instruct you in the womanly arts of love." (1.11, DAENERYS) ... " Maegi," grunted Haggo, fingering his arakh. His look was dark. Dany remembered the word from a terrifying story that Jhiqui had told her one night by the cookfire. A maegi was a woman who lay with demons and practiced the blackest of sorceries, a vile thing, evil and soulless, who came to men in the dark of night and sucked life and strength from their bodies. (1.61, DAENERYS) This is the strongest evidence, and it seems that maegi is Dothraki. Oh, and welcome FreyFamilyReunion!
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Post by Maester Flagons on Mar 2, 2016 0:19:51 GMT
Interesting take. I've actually concluded that maegi is, in fact, a Dothraki word. However... it may not originally have been a Dothraki word. It's possible that it's a loanword, adopted from elsewhere. The reason I think it qualifies as a Dothraki word is because (as you quoted above, Ser Flagons ) Dany learns the word from Jhiqui. And Jhiqui is the handmaid whose responsibility was to instruct Dany in the Dothraki language. So, here are the relevant quotes: I first thought it to be an original Dothraki word, but, yes, I changed my mind. I take it that the Dothraki picked up the word from another culture then changed the meaning. From 'wise' to 'evil sorceress.' But who knows where Mirri obtained the definition of 'wise' from. And Maggy the Frog is probably not Dothraki. In fact, the common thread tying Maggy to Mirri (besides similar names)... is that they are practitioners of bloodmagic. So it would make sense if the word maegi had something to do with that. Agree. Bloodmagic, bloodmage. Asshai would be a good place to start. The very short version is... that the Dothraki and their culture were once Asshai'i - or originated in that area. If that were true, then the word maegi might be both Dothraki and Asshai'i. And the theory could explain a handful of other things, as well. Things like Interestingly interesting.
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Post by Maester Flagons on Mar 2, 2016 0:28:40 GMT
I don't have a guess as of now. But if "maegi" means wise, then I assume that the term Maester may come from the same root word, since they too are known for their wisdom. Perhaps Maegi the feminine and Maester the masculine. There is a title at the Citadel named the Seneschal which mirrors a term used in Mereen as well, which would be another eastern connection. Also interesting. Maesters, the keeper of knowledge and ravens. I do wonder if it was these wise men who were the first human skinchangers in Westeros that learned to send messages by ravens. The same wise men, and maybe women too, who traveled across the Narrow Sea with their clans and peoples who then recieved the knowledge of 'flight.' The maegi from the east became the maesters of the west? Cool.
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