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Post by Maester Flagons on Mar 11, 2016 18:19:30 GMT
Good stuff. The horn to wake the sleepers. And the sword of heroes. Might be that Dawn was influenced by this too.
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Post by Maester Flagons on Mar 11, 2016 18:30:34 GMT
I'll have to read that story again since I rushed through it while eating.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Mar 11, 2016 18:33:23 GMT
Very nice....a Scottish Monkey's Paw. Totally GRRM-y, too.
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Post by freyfamilyreunion on Mar 11, 2016 18:56:12 GMT
While I recognize that the story does contain actual "magic horns", such as the Valyrian horns, and actual "magic swords" such as Dawn and the Valryian blades, I'm still of the opinion that Martin's actual magic swords and horns are his characters. I think the "magic swords" are forged through genetic breeding of various magical bloodlines, while his magic horns may stand for the telepathic characters in his story (such as perhaps Bran, Arya, and Ghost). At least as of now, I'm putting Jon in the "magic sword" category (especially since I think he may prove to be our Lightbringer).
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Post by freyfamilyreunion on Mar 11, 2016 18:57:31 GMT
Very nice....a Scottish Monkey's Paw. Totally GRRM-y, too. Yea, it did remind me a bit of George's story, even though I have a hard time putting my finger on exactly why it did.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2016 2:13:14 GMT
While I recognize that the story does contain actual "magic horns", such as the Valyrian horns, and actual "magic swords" such as Dawn and the Valryian blades, I'm still of the opinion that Martin's actual magic swords and horns are his characters. I think the "magic swords" are forged through genetic breeding of various magical bloodlines, while his magic horns may stand for the telepathic characters in his story (such as perhaps Bran, Arya, and Ghost). At least as of now, I'm putting Jon in the "magic sword" category (especially since I think he may prove to be our Lightbringer). I for sure want to hear more about these telepathic characters. As you can tell Ghost is one of my favorite "characters"!
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Post by snowfyre on Mar 13, 2016 3:44:12 GMT
You know, another interesting thought just occurred to me, reinforcing the connection between the Skirling Pass and the sounding of the Horn. And that is, simply, the definition of the word skirling...
A bit obvious, maybe... but in the sense of this being the location of the Horn being sounded, perhaps the "Skirling Pass" could be something like the "Howling Pass," or the "Sounding Pass." That would be fitting. (For this theory, of course.)
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Post by snowfyre on Mar 13, 2016 14:13:16 GMT
And this post is the sort of thing I want to get back to, soon. In the spirit of my apple/botanically themed posts of yore. (Which I'll be bringing over soon, btw.) Weasel Pie, Ser Duncan, Maester Flagons - I'll follow up with you this week about it, but this is the sort of thing I had in mind earlier re: a board for Free Association, Wordplay, Literature Tie-Ins, Crackpots, etc. I want to organize my thoughts on it first, but freyfamilyreunion knows what I'm talking about. (What's that word you used once, FFR, back when we first talked apples? Something about the unexpectedly carefree, fun-loving side of GRRM's writing style. I'll have to look back at our early PMs...)
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Post by Weasel Pie on Mar 13, 2016 14:20:49 GMT
a board for Free Association, Wordplay, Literature Tie-Ins, Crackpots, etc. you know I'm up for this, I have lots of small things like that - not quite a full theory but a semi-obvious winkandanod. Let me know how I can help.
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Post by Melifeather on Mar 13, 2016 14:43:37 GMT
Something about the unexpectedly carefree, fun-loving side of GRRM's writing style. Your understanding of his writing style could really be helpful to me when deciphering the Wheel of Time chapters.
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Post by freyfamilyreunion on Mar 13, 2016 16:08:17 GMT
And this post is the sort of thing I want to get back to, soon. In the spirit of my apple/botanically themed posts of yore. (Which I'll be bringing over soon, btw.) Weasel Pie, Ser Duncan, Maester Flagons - I'll follow up with you this week about it, but this is the sort of thing I had in mind earlier re: a board for Free Association, Wordplay, Literature Tie-Ins, Crackpots, etc. I want to organize my thoughts on it first, but freyfamilyreunion knows what I'm talking about. (What's that word you used once, FFR, back when we first talked apples? Something about the unexpectedly carefree, fun-loving side of GRRM's writing style. I'll have to look back at our early PMs...) Whimsical
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Mar 13, 2016 21:27:12 GMT
Slightly related tangent on horns and song. I posted this elsewhere and got no bites (probably for a good reason) but maybe you guys will like it.
Note that Slowy's "horn" translating to "howl" is equally applicable with the premise laid out below.
All of these horns produce "songs"...and Wolfmaid's excellent "Those Who Sing" essay demonstrates the importance of songs throughout ASOAIF. We also get the association of singing with major natural events: the breaking of the Arm of Dorne, Hammer of the Waters, some Rhoynish stuff I can't remember right now. Anyway, the insinuation is that the protagonists in these events joined together in song to make it happen.
Ok, so because mythology and all that....but now in-universe, we have the horns with their supposed powers that are awoken when the "song" is played.
Let me ask you this. Q: what do all songs, sung or played, have in common?
A: Pitch. Frequency. Sound waves.
It's acoustics, people.
And scientifically speaking, in terms of real-world research/lab experiments/extensive testing, what can deliberate acoustical manipulation DO?
Well, let's see.
Animal stuff: A sound at high frequency can call dogs. Sonar can attract whales. Certain ultrasound noises can affect the flight pattern of echolocators like bats. Sound is said to be able to repel certain bugs and rodents. Humans have used sonic weapons/sound cannons for years for defense and crowd control.
Geologic stuff: There's really only one, but it's huge. SEISMIC ACTIVITY. Seismic events are behind it all - earthquakes, tsunamis, avalanches. Dang, there are even circulating acoustic waves in tornadoes - although not seismic per se, tornadoes produce ultra-low frequency sounds/mechanical waves, and I suppose someone with more background than me could say if those waves could be artifically generated/manipulated.
So that's it. The Children, the gods, whatever, anyone who produces "song", IMO has tapped into the frequencies needed to manipulate elements of their world. The horns are the instruments to do that.
Think about it (and this is what inspired this post): the Horn of Joramun, aka the Horn of WINTER, can "wake giants from the earth" and supposedly bring down the Wall. However, both Dalla and Mel warn against blowing the Horn, because then the Others can come through.
What is one of the deadliest and most destructive events that occurs only in winter cold? Avalanches. I bet the "song" from the Horn of Joramun [whether an actual horn or the howling of wolves] is at just the right frequency to trigger seismic shakes that set off a Wallvalanche...and that Wallvalanche can take out anything in its path but once it's over, whatever wasn't taken out has a clear path. Same principle as the controlled blasting that happens in the Rockies every year so that skiers aren't wiped out in the thousands.
TL;DR: The horns - whatever they are/however they produce "music" - represent an element and the control of that element, and I think that's happening through sound.
One last thing: a poster on the last page of [the original posted link that triggered this idea] made this observation, which is frigging awesome:
"As with most things, I believe that the George intends for there to be one song and that is the song of Ice and Fire or better yet the Song of Life and Death. Now the person or Great Other is using the heart of winter to transmit a distorted version of the Song of Life to control wights but this song can not pass the magical wards of the Wall. That is why you don't have wights on the other side of the wall but you do have people like Beric, Lady Stoneheart or Ser Robert Strong that have been granted Life once again by another distortion of the Song of Life. Duality of Ice and Fire or the duality of life and death and no one ever heard of copy write laws. Anyway songs, music and notes can be translated into mathematical equations. I believe that the Song of Life has the meter (a recurring pattern of stresses or accents that provide the pulse or beat of music) that is expressed as 3.14 or PI. PI has been expressed to being the equation of life because it is the ever repeated golden ratio. Now PI has also been associated with the Nautilus Shell spiral. Life emerged from the sea and we barely returned. Therefore the Song of Life and Death song is played to the meter of PI and was composed for a Nautilus Shell Horn."
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Post by Melifeather on Mar 13, 2016 21:32:52 GMT
Therefore the Song of Life and Death song is played to the meter of PI and was composed for a Nautilus Shell Horn." Under the sea the old fish eat the young fish. Up here the young fish teach the old fish.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Mar 13, 2016 21:42:29 GMT
Also, at the opposite end of the spectrum light years away from acoustical theory, snowfyre's idea of the howling communication reminded me of something else: The Twilight Bark. From 101 Dalmations. It's how Pongo and Perdita found their puppies!! Many people must have noticed how dogs like to bark in the early evening. Indeed, twilight has sometimes been called "Dogs' Barking Time." Busy town dogs bark less than country dogs, but all dogs know all about the Twilight Barking. It is their way of keeping in touch with distant friends, passing on important news, enjoying a good gossip. — Dodie Smith, The Hundred and One Dalmatians
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Post by snowfyre on Mar 13, 2016 21:55:54 GMT
Well, my theory (and this is part of what I was going to go back and add in Part IV) is that Ghost will howl again, near the beginning of WINDS, and that this will signal the "fall" of the Wall. I think Jon's last chapter and scene in Dance leads right up to this event... basically, that Jon will warg Ghost, and that Ghost's voice will be heard for the first time in the waking world (by non-Starks).
There are a couple of things worth saying about this. One of which is that the "Wall" that falls may not necessarily be the 700 ft high barrier of ice we all know and love - not immediately, anyway. I think the Wall whose fall will be signaled by this second sounding of "the Horn" - is the Night's Watch. There's a good bit of support for this in the text, in terms of metaphorical and "wisdom" statements. Also, there's significant foreshadowing, in Jon's own thinking just before he gets stabbed:
Notice... that before Jon ever reaches out to Ghost (Stick them with the pointy end...), he wants a horn.
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