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Post by Weasel Pie on Apr 25, 2016 17:54:12 GMT
watching someone he loves die or something. But I can't think who in that party would cause such a reaction from him. Arthur Dayne? Lyanna, if she's even there? Hodor! Bloodraven is now the ghost of Christmas past?  |
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Post by jnr on Jul 2, 2016 4:47:18 GMT
Well, the season's over.
Verdict: I don't think much got spoiled.
Nobody expects Jon is permanently dead in the books; that's certainly not a spoiler.
Sansa's story in the books is dramatically different at a basic level and has been since season five. Absolutely nothing that happened to her is likely to be a spoiler.
I can easily picture the Dornish coup happening, albeit not in such an instant way, and in any case, don't much care about Dornish politics. Neither does the show; they forgot all about Dorne, mostly.
Dany going to Vaes Dothrak, killing khals, and returning... mmm, yes, but it doesn't happen in that way. For one thing, the method by which the khals die is not going to be quite the same in the books.
Hodor's name. Absolutely, positively not a spoiler. What D&D were told by GRRM was simply that it's short for "hold the door," but the circs are completely different in the books, for so many reasons. Example: there is no leader of the Popsicles named the Night's King, ergo nobody to grab Bran as he watches a weirwood memory (how would that even happen??), no logic behind that somehow breaking the ward, ergo no reason for the group to have to split from the cave, and if they did split, there's no back door to hold, nor any front door... only the sinkhole ATS was so fond of telling us about, which can't of course be held by anybody.
Creation of the white walkers. This actually made me laugh out loud; D&D simply went down much the same peculiar path that Black Crow has in the past. One more instance of how D&D have just done everything about the Popsicles in a fundamentally different way, ever since at least season two, when Jon actually saw one taking a Craster-baby.
Ramsay losing the battle of Winterfell. Yes, technical spoiler I suppose, but I always expected him to lose this. And about time.
Cersei blowing up the Great Sept. Enjoyable as that was to watch, I don't think that happens either, though those wildfire caches do have a part to play IMO... And why Jaime never took care of them after the Rebellion, don't ask me -- seems like a major plot flaw.
R+L=J confirmation. Har har, it is to laugh. Technically, Lyanna didn't even say it was her baby, let alone Rhaegar's, and most of the rest of the scene was info we book-readers have had since 1996. Could turn out to be true, of course, but if so, it's not the way the books go.
Almost all the Jaime plot was from AFFC.
Arya being invulnerable like Superman -- stabbed in the guts, but able to leap great distances in a single bound and outduel an assassin pitch darkness -- is more of the show's absolute BS. And if she kills Walder, that again is something we've all predicted for years. Though I think she might do it through Nymeria in the books.
So in short, while it's possible we were badly spoiled, it doesn't seem like it. It mainly seems like season six of the show has either done the stuff we already expected... wacky stuff that can't and won't happen in the books... or irrelevant stuff we don't much care about.
God willing, GRRM will do the manly thing, the decent thing, and finish his goddamn book before season seven. So it won't spoil us much either.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Jul 2, 2016 15:23:28 GMT
Hodor's name. Absolutely, positively not a spoiler. What D&D were told by GRRM was simply that it's short for "hold the door," but the circs are completely different in the books, for so many reasons. This is really the only one I consider a true spoiler. The meaning of Hodor alone is enough for us to now speculate on how he got it. Do I think Bran is involved? Very possibly; almost definitely. Will it involve some sort of time travel? If time is as elastic as BR said it is, and if Bran's powers are as strong as we believe them to be, then yes, we already have two things spoiled right there. Of course it could just be that Hodor held a door open with his head as a kid and that's an end to it, but if that were the case why hasn't Martin ever answered any questions about what hodor means or what happened to Walder? I mean if it was insignificant he could just say, 'oh an anvil fell on his head; a horse kicked him; he too fell from a tower; etc' in the same manner that he answered the question about Brienne's ancestry. I agree that the circumstances on the show are completely different and even nonsensical (a back door on a tree's hollow, really!?) I also have my doubts that the damage on Hodor was inflicted by his witnessing his own future death, so any scenario that involves that particular time loop I don't believe will be repeated in the books. Mind you, the brilliance of Bran reaching for Hodor in the present and snagging Walder in the past is not the sort of cleverness I'd expect from the dynamic duo, so that may have come from Martin, which worries me because the emotional impact is now lost to the book reader that watches the show. |
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Post by wolfmaid7 on Jul 2, 2016 16:21:15 GMT
For me i can see moments where fan ideas might have snuck in and because they are popular it would be successful on a level that's void of a bit of sense.
I think Stannis's role got replaced with Jon.I certainly think Ramsey gets it but i don't think Jon is the one that gives it to him in the books.I fear if there is a battle it will be between Jon and the Bran collective and while the effects will be felt above ground only we the readers and a few people might have insight into that.
To my recollection Aerys had more than just the Red Keep booby trapped so when that goes boom i don't think its just the Red keep in such a controlled fashion.I too think the Wild fire will come into play but not like that.Do i think Cersie could make a choice and burn everything if she can't have it...Yeah.
That entire Sansa arc and what happened at WF is not even in the stars.No spoilers there at all.
Jon being dead i dont think so.Based on Bran's vision Jon will be changed "Shrouded lord 2.0."Melissandre will have nothing to do with that.
Hands thrown up in the air in exasperation about Dorne in the show.It will be different on account of Doran being alive in the books and there being a long game there involving Dany.
The whole Tyrion meets Dany has ben telagraphed in the books and i think that meeting may not go as smoothly as depicted in the show.Too many variables like Quaithe, who the show just gave up on is very much linked to Dany and how she is turning out sooooo?
The famous toj scene which i will go on record again as saying...Fight with Kgs and Ned "finding" Lyanna didnt take place at the same time or place.There is so many things wrong there its not funny.This is one of the issues that raise questions about Lyanna's location.I believe through Bran we will see evidence of Jon's parentage.
Now when i say people don't think critically you all must think i talk to much about this and i'm insulting people i really am not.So are there Weirwoods at toj whereby Bran could peak through and see that shit?
So wouldn't Lyanna have to have been somewhere where Weirwoods are so Bran can communicate with that moment in time?
No Weirwoods at toj sooooo whatever visual information Bran will see about Jon must have happen where Weirwoods go.The Show cannot capture the subtly that GRRM utilizes to give us clues that long held perceptions are wrong.All these are tell tale signs the audience and by that i mean readers on a whole forget.We are told this plain about the weirwoods keeping the history.So if we believe Bran will be the source of this info then he can't have gotten it from spying in a room at toj WHERE THERE ARE NO FREAKING WEIRWOODS D&D.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Jul 2, 2016 17:23:46 GMT
WHERE THERE ARE NO FREAKING WEIRWOODS D&D.  True! The only way Bran would able to see and be inside the ToJ is once he learns to see beyond the trees, which BR told Bran he would eventually do. And by eventually I believe it will only happen until he is enthroned in a weirwood forever, not while he can still detach himself from the visions of each particular tree. And even then I don't believe it will be an easy peasy thing to do. 'Oh I reckon I'll just have a peek at some random place in the Princes Pass today at exactly the right moment to see my aunt dying in my father's arms.' Seems legit.  The Show cannot capture the subtly that GRRM utilizes to give us clues that long held perceptions are wrong.All these are tell tale signs the audience and by that i mean readers on a whole forget. Yes, and you are not the only one to notice this lack. Interesting article on how the show has changed in the last two seasons. |
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Post by wolfmaid7 on Jul 2, 2016 19:00:44 GMT
WHERE THERE ARE NO FREAKING WEIRWOODS D&D. True! The only way Bran would able to see and be inside the ToJ is once he learns to see beyond the trees, which BR told Bran he would eventually do. And by eventually I believe it will only happen until he is enthroned in a weirwood forever, not while he can still detach himself from the visions of each particular tree. And even then I don't believe it will be an easy peasy thing to do. 'Oh I reckon I'll just have a peek at some random place in the Princes Pass today at exactly the right moment to see my aunt dying in my father's arms.' Seems legit. The Show cannot capture the subtly that GRRM utilizes to give us clues that long held perceptions are wrong.All these are tell tale signs the audience and by that i mean readers on a whole forget. Yes, and you are not the only one to notice this lack. Interesting article on how the show has changed in the last two seasons. Yep,not for a long time would he be able to " see beyond the trees" but i always took this to be other eyes and not just the trees. The thing with the events listed above is they happened "in Bloodravens lifetime" he could utilize any of his skins to spy on events like that. In the case of Bran, Jon was before him so he has to look through something that existed around that time.He basically has to see "back" through something ,and something that was present which is the crux of this.Whatever he uses and he has to use something by which to see, has to have been present for said relevant moments in time. So in a nutshell,for someone at Bran's skill level and for the mere fact we are speaking about something in the past he would still need the Weirwoods to see what transpired and if we are going to see Lyanna give birth to Jon or some evidence that makes that wow then he has to see through something that was,is and will be for a long time.....Orrrr Howland will emerge from the Crannog with a moldy parchment. |
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Post by Ser Duncan on Jul 2, 2016 19:07:37 GMT
The thing with the events listed above is they happened "in Bloodravens lifetime" he could utilize any of his skins to spy on events like that. In the case of Bran, Jon was before him so he has to look through something that existed around that time.He basically has to see "back" through something ,and something that was present which is the crux of this.Whatever he uses and he has to use something by which to see, has to have been present for said relevant moments in time.  Well reasoned! That's what I was trying to say with the snarky line about going through all of the history of Westeros and finding a way to see that particular moment in time. It's like finding a needle in a haystack without a magnet. |
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Post by Maester Flagons on Jul 6, 2016 2:48:49 GMT
Chiming in on the Hodor incident. Obviously, as said above, that will not play out in Martin's version. No door to hold at the cave entrance. On a slightly comical note, it could be more mundane than expected. I always found it funny when Bran smacks his head on the door jams (and tree limb) while Bran is being carried through on Hodor's back. Recurring physical comedy there. The only time it played out seriously is when Bran and Hodor pass through the Black Gate. Tears from the Gate/door. Not funny.  |
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Post by wolfmaid7 on Jul 6, 2016 18:41:38 GMT
The thing with the events listed above is they happened "in Bloodravens lifetime" he could utilize any of his skins to spy on events like that. In the case of Bran, Jon was before him so he has to look through something that existed around that time.He basically has to see "back" through something ,and something that was present which is the crux of this.Whatever he uses and he has to use something by which to see, has to have been present for said relevant moments in time. Well reasoned! That's what I was trying to say with the snarky line about going through all of the history of Westeros and finding a way to see that particular moment in time. It's like finding a needle in a haystack without a magnet. All the more to say it will never happen in Martin's book.From a narrative standpoint it makes no sense and i chalk that up to fan service. |
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Post by wolfmaid7 on Jul 6, 2016 18:50:50 GMT
Chiming in on the Hodor incident. Obviously, as said above, that will not play out in Martin's version. No door to hold at the cave entrance. On a slightly comical note, it could be more mundane than expected. I always found it funny when Bran smacks his head on the door jams (and tree limb) while Bran is being carried through on Hodor's back. Recurring physical comedy there. The only time it played out seriously is when Bran and Hodor pass through the Black Gate. Tears from the Gate/door. Not funny. I know, the door at the back of a cave got me...That one was stretching it alot. |
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Post by Melifeather on Jul 6, 2016 22:19:06 GMT
I understand why they chose a physical door...how do you show a magical one?
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Post by min on Dec 8, 2016 3:28:27 GMT
Deleted scenes:
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True! The only way Bran would able to see and be inside the ToJ is once he learns to see beyond the trees, which BR told Bran he would eventually do. And by eventually I believe it will only happen until he is enthroned in a weirwood forever, not while he can still detach himself from the visions of each particular tree. And even then I don't believe it will be an easy peasy thing to do. 'Oh I reckon I'll just have a peek at some random place in the Princes Pass today at exactly the right moment to see my aunt dying in my father's arms.' Seems legit. 
Well reasoned! That's what I was trying to say with the snarky line about going through all of the history of Westeros and finding a way to see that particular moment in time. It's like finding a needle in a haystack without a magnet. 
