|
Post by Melifeather on Mar 28, 2016 22:34:45 GMT
If Euron opened the hinge, and it flipped upside down like Patchface says, AND since Quaithe told Dany to go east and pass beneath the shadow...maybe, just maybe the Wall is no longer warded? Or, since north is now south there's a back door into Westeros and the white walkers can invade Westeros from the south. South of Dorne is open water, so unless they freeze the water, I don't know how they would do it, BUT there's likely an opening somewhere.
|
|
|
Post by freyfamilyreunion on Mar 29, 2016 14:38:59 GMT
There are some real good observations here. Believe it or not, there is actually a Roman goddess of the "hinge", Cardea, sometimes known as Carna. Ovid, the Roman poet most known for his work, the Metamorphosis,, has a pretty cool origin story for the goddess of the hinge, he named Carna. Ovid has a neat description of the goddess: "By means of her divine presence, she opens things that have been closed, and closes things that have been open".
In Ovid's story, Carna was a nymph who led her suitors on a merry chase before ultimately hiding from them and enjoying their angst from afar (basically a big cock tease). She tried this once with Janus, a two-headed god of among other things, doorways,. Unfortunately for Carna, since Janus had two heads, she was unable to lose him, and he caught her and raped her, somehow transforming her into the goddess of the hinge. Basically this was the "hinge" or turning point which transformed her from a nymph into a goddess who polices the threshold or boundaries of domesticity.
Taking these ideas into this story we have the notion of a doorway, which without a hinge can neither open nor close. Thus the creation of a hinge allows things that have been opened to close, or vice versa. Ovid's metaphor of a rape is interesting as well. The context of the hinge creaking open in Aerion's POV definitely seems to connote a rape was in progress when he was a child.
Rape can also stand for an unconsented intrusion. Screaming or shrieking hinges marked the opening of the Winterfell tombs by Lady Dustin, and the opening of the dragonpits by Quentyn and company.
Rape can also lead to a conception (i.e. Lollys' bastard Tyrionl). Which makes me think that a conception could have created the hinges on one of our magical "doorways" which allowed something previously closed off to be opened again.
ETA: speaking of Tyrion and the two headed god Janus, this kind of makes me think about Tyrion's dreams of having two heads, hmmm.
|
|
|
Post by Melifeather on Mar 29, 2016 14:50:21 GMT
I was meditating on the moldy carpet that Dany stood upon inside the House of the Undying. The worls and coloring sounded to me like it was symbolic of Westeros, and the condition of the carpet may be the wards or hinges. They're decaying.
|
|
|
Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Mar 29, 2016 15:18:43 GMT
Some Pig No Doubt could tell us whether Euron's Marvel character, Mordo would know enough about unwarding or unraveling spells from hinges in order to mess with it since Mordo was the Sorcerer's apprentice at one time? Will have to come back to this thread when I have more time, but to answer this, yes, Mordo is a master practitioner of the magic arts and would know what to do. However, keep in mind that the magics between the comics and the series are very different so any magic that Euron might know is probably far more organic than anything in Marvel.
|
|
|
Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Mar 29, 2016 15:20:36 GMT
Which makes me think that a conception could have created the hinges on one of our magical "doorways" which allowed something previously closed off to be opened again. And, of course, we had this happen in the very first book - although perhaps the conception itself didn't open the doorway, but the sacrifice of the product of that conception certainly did.
|
|
|
Post by freyfamilyreunion on Mar 29, 2016 15:25:01 GMT
Which makes me think that a conception could have created the hinges on one of our magical "doorways" which allowed something previously closed off to be opened again. And, of course, we had this happen in the very first book - although perhaps the conception itself didn't open the doorway, but the sacrifice of the product of that conception certainly did. I assume you mean Dany's conception and miscarriage during the blood ritual, leading to the birth of the dragons?
Not technically a rape, although it was a marriage against her will, and some pretty painful intercourse. And of course she was about 13 at the time, so, yea, pretty much a rape.
|
|
|
Post by Melifeather on Mar 29, 2016 15:31:21 GMT
And, of course, we had this happen in the very first book - although perhaps the conception itself didn't open the doorway, but the sacrifice of the product of that conception certainly did. I assume you mean Dany's conception and miscarriage during the blood ritual, leading to the birth of the dragons?
Not technically a rape, although it was a marriage against her will, and some pretty painful intercourse. And of course she was about 13 at the time, so, yea, pretty much a rape.
Not that I don't agree 13 was too young for the age of consent, but book Drogo seduced her...tv Drogo raped her.
|
|
|
Post by min on Mar 29, 2016 15:31:38 GMT
And, of course, we had this happen in the very first book - although perhaps the conception itself didn't open the doorway, but the sacrifice of the product of that conception certainly did. I assume you mean Dany's conception and miscarriage during the blood ritual, leading to the birth of the dragons?
Not technically a rape, although it was a marriage against her will, and some pretty painful intercourse. And of course she was about 13 at the time, so, yea, pretty much a rape.
That's interesting because the Sword and the Serpent is also comet imagery. Perhaps the serpent hinge is better named the dragon hinge.
|
|
|
Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Mar 29, 2016 19:50:06 GMT
Trios and the Fountain of the Drunken God
Dany’s experience in the HotU gives us the symbolism of the god Trios and his counter-part, the Drunken God. Trios is a three-headed god worshipped in Essos. There is a large statue of him near the Temple of Trios in Tyrosh. There is also a tower with three turrets dedicated to Trios in Braavos.[1] Penny recalls to Tyrion Lannister that an elderly dwarf was cut into three parts and pushed inside the mouths of Trios at the temple in Tyrosh.[2] The Sailor's Wife once told Arya Stark that the first head of Trio devours the dying and the reborn emerge from the third, but she did not recall the purpose of the middle head – Westeros WikiI would invert the Tale of the Sailor’s Wife and say that Trios devours the living and spits out the undying who occupy the space between life and death by drinking from the fountain of the drunken god. Drink from a cup of ice or a cup of fire; to be determined by the middle head; The House of Black and White. Or the Sailor’s Wife could be saying that the living are continually in the process of dying; that Trios gives them a second life. Had a thought on this that I wanted to jot down before I spin off and forget it....and perhaps this is where you were going but I didn't understand well enough. Dany's vision in HotU: "Drink from the cup of ice, drink from the cup of fire" - ice and fire representing the Cold Gods and the Red God, respectively....both gods who are but manifestations of the one true god, the god of Death. The pool inside the HoBaW delivers death to those who drink its water. The Faceless Men dip a cup into the pool; those who wish to transcend take the cup and drink down death. Ice, fire, it makes no matter...the cup is one.
|
|
|
Post by min on Mar 29, 2016 21:11:32 GMT
Had a thought on this that I wanted to jot down before I spin off and forget it....and perhaps this is where you were going but I didn't understand well enough. Dany's vision in HotU: "Drink from the cup of ice, drink from the cup of fire" - ice and fire representing the Cold Gods and the Red God, respectively....both gods who are but manifestations of the one true god, the god of Death. The pool inside the HoBaW delivers death to those who drink its water. The Faceless Men dip a cup into the pool; those who wish to transcend take the cup and drink down death. Ice, fire, it makes no matter...the cup is one. Indeed, it's one in the same. It's curious that the kindly old man and the greenseer are sewn together after a fashion and that Jaqen mentions R'hllor first and the many faced god second; when he admonishes Arya for blaming the gods for Ned's death. The rest are insignificant. In a larger sense, drinking from the fountain of fire or ice unbalances the world. The switchback stairs claw their way up the wall like lightening seems to echo statements that Arya makes about herself. When she crosses paths with Sam in Braavos and takes on the Braavosi swordsmen menacing Sam; she tells them that she is a cat with claws. Melisandre also says the R'hllor has claws. An old, old man or woman might have claws. So I wonder if there is more than a simple connection to the House of Black and White. Edit: There is "he who has many names" and "he who has many faces". If R'hllor is the lord of light; I wonder what is meant by Quaithe's instruction; that Dany must touch the light.
|
|
|
Post by Maester Flagons on Mar 30, 2016 20:15:43 GMT
I've been thinking that the House of Black and White is a hinge ,too. The sanctum in the lower levels hold the faces, and within the conciousness of the dead are being held until they can be grafted to a new body and live again. Those that drink from the pool don't die a true death, they go to the in between place, a transitional state. The second head of Trios.
I like the cup of ice and the cup of fire correlation to the dark pool in the temple of the Faceless Men. A drink that kills the flesh but preserves the conciousness.
|
|
|
Post by Melifeather on Mar 30, 2016 20:57:37 GMT
I was wondering if the House of Black and White and the House of the Undying were hinges on a smaller scale, versus the immense size of the Wall? Just because the Wall is made of ice doesn't mean the physical aspect of it is what makes it a hinge. Rather the actual hinge would be invisible, and that men had just build the physical Wall over the place where they knew the hinge was. If that is true, then the HoBaW and the HotU are actually more like portals similar to the Black Gate, and if you were to go through them you would be entering an alternate reality.
|
|
|
Post by Maester Flagons on Mar 30, 2016 21:10:04 GMT
I was wondering if the House of Black and White and the House of the Undying were hinges on a smaller scale, versus the immense size of the Wall? Just because the Wall is made of ice doesn't mean the physical aspect of it is what makes it a hinge. Rather the actual hinge would be invisible, and that men had just build the physical Wall over the place where they knew the hinge was. If that is true, then the HoBaW and the HotU are actually more like portals similar to the Black Gate, and if you were to go through them you would be entering an alternate reality. I was also thinking of a smaller or localized hinge in the HoBaW. The Wall could be the amplifier of the magic from the hinge, or an extension of it, which begins at one or a few various smaller sources. Say, area of the Night's Fort, for example.
|
|
|
Post by Maester Flagons on Apr 1, 2016 11:48:24 GMT
Arya to the waif, "My sentences are as crooked as my stitches used to be."
This is when she begins to learn the Braavos language as a novice in the HoBaW.
|
|
|
Post by min on Apr 1, 2016 14:30:46 GMT
I think the HoB&W is responsible for creating the hinges; that they make the hinges that connect the doors. They stitch things together. Mel says that her kind weave with light, they make the carpets. While others weave with thread. In other words they stitch carpets together. I think that's what the HoB&W does: the Wall with the House of the Undying; the Wall with Winterfell.
I'm guessing the cave beneath the Mother of Mountains and something in the walled city of Volantis.
Love the Arya quote. There's lots of that if you're tuned to notice it. Her very first POV: Arya's stiches were crooked again. She wondered how she was going to repair it. She put her needle down. And then she puts her needled down at the HoB&W. But she's not letting go of it.
The Night's Fort has a face hung on a stone wall in it's sink hole well. That has the HoB&W all over it. There may or may not be a greenseer attached to that weirwood that pushed it's way through stone to reach the moonlight.
We might as well call the Black Gate the Moon Door (let the bad man fly). The moon figures prominently on the actual doors of the HoBW
Just out of curiosity; why does House Arryn depict the black gate (moon door) at the Eyrie along with a weirwood throne? What would the Arryn's know about it? Do the build stages at the Eyrie: stone gate, bloody gate... reflect the stages of the Wall's construction?
|
|