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Post by Weasel Pie on Apr 5, 2016 14:21:40 GMT
Yes, the controversial wedding night scene with Ramsay. This isn't a thread to discuss the particulars of that scene but rather what it means in the big picture of the story. I've long believed that we should scrutinize the decisions that the show writers make, because I also believe that the decisions GRRM makes are paramount to understanding the story. So, D&D decided to show this scene. Yes, it's a brutal scene, possibly a book spoiler, etc. But, like every other controversial scene, it has to mean something in the big picture, it has to tell the TV audience something that stands apart from how the Book audience might interpret it. Quite simply, it's a parallel to Dany's wedding night, which was also explicit in the show. The show writers are handing it to the TV audience on a silver platter: the parallels between Dany and Sansa are extremely important. D&D did the exact same thing when Loras gave Sansa a rose at the Hands Tourney, and Dany got a blue rose from showDaario. What do I take away from this? RLD. Dany is half Stark. Melifeather more inversions, and the show is making sure we know about them |
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Post by Melifeather on Apr 5, 2016 15:19:26 GMT
I am hoping that this is evidence that the show is trying to demonstrate the inversion/flipping of the hinge. THAT would be very cool! It is a complex idea that I was wondering how even GRRM would go about making sure his reading audience grasped it also.
The parallels, echoes, and inversions that we notice are our clues that something has been done to one of the great hinges of the world, but how to you demonstrate that? The show would have to start making it really obvious and hitting us with repeat examples until the viewer goes, huh, that's really strange. Isn't that just like "so and so"?
It doesn't necessarily mean Dany is half Stark, but I do think the flipping of reality has caused false memories...because one thing that Bloodraven stated about the past is that the past cannot be changed, thus implying that the future can.
If the wheel of time is constantly rotating without end and the same situations occur generation after generation, then you have to look at the Game of Thrones as one big Cyvasse game. Only the opening of the hinge causing a mirrored inversion would be like setting up the game pieces in different positions. The wheel of time is still constant and the same situations will still occur, but now you've got different players in each respective spot.
How to you show this on television?
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Post by Weasel Pie on Apr 5, 2016 15:30:42 GMT
yes, I know I used this to plug RLD  but in all seriousness... I think the show has to walk a fine line. "How to show this on television" is of course the big question. D&D only have 500 or so minutes per season to tell a very complex story to the unsullied. So yes, I think some of the more questionable inclusions or even diversions from the book material need to be viewed as necessary for the story to reach it's conclusion. Trying to think of other parallels. And I do think D&D intend to fill us in on Bran's Timelording abilities. I'm hoping they'll work with actual GRRM material here and not wing it. |
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Post by Melifeather on Apr 5, 2016 15:36:29 GMT
The trailers showing Bran standing and being touched by the white walker communicate three things:
1) Bran is time traveling
2) He may be warging some Brandon in the past
3) The white walker can see him and knows he's a skinchanger
It would require a good deal of dialog to try to explain this any other way...at least, in my opinion.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Apr 6, 2016 1:16:42 GMT
The show writers are handing it to the TV audience on a silver platter: the parallels between Dany and Sansa are extremely important. Yanno, parallels are kindof my thing and I am ashamed to admit that the Dany/Sansa ones completely escaped me until you said this. Now my brain is churning and I'm seeing them everywhere. But yes, the question is, why? Why are D&D doing this? I may have to lay this out on paper like I did for TOJ/Tent. RE: RLD, I jump all over the place with this one. Some days I think yes, other days not so much. Dany has a ton of Starky imagery for sure, but I'm still leaning toward that being more of a First Men thing that could also be a hat tip to Ashara. ....Who, of course, has jack squat to do with the show up to this point, so who the hell knows what D&D are actually doing. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2016 1:41:03 GMT
 I am just creepin' on the conversation. Carry on folks carry on.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Apr 6, 2016 15:19:33 GMT
Quite simply, it's a parallel to Dany's wedding night, which was also explicit in the show. The show writers are handing it to the TV audience on a silver platter: the parallels between Dany and Sansa are extremely important. D&D did the exact same thing when Loras gave Sansa a rose at the Hands Tourney, and Dany got a blue rose from showDaario. I don't usually put too much store in what the show does. I used to, but jnr set me straight on this score  It is interesting though. Why would they want the audience to feel the same kind of empathy for Dany as we do Sansa? I see it going in that direction, rather than the reverse. ShowSansa has been used and abused much more than ShowDany. ShowDany has gone through maybe a quarter of the hardships she went through in the books. So perhaps it's to draw sympathy for Dany, who so far in the show hasn't really deserved any empathy. She's a screaming shrew in the show, not a young woman struggling with her position in life. |
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Post by Melifeather on Apr 6, 2016 15:26:26 GMT
I don't think it's sympathy that the show is trying to garner...I think we're meant to notice a parallel.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Apr 6, 2016 15:49:29 GMT
I don't think it's sympathy that the show is trying to garner...I think we're meant to notice a parallel. Then it's pointing to either, Sansa will be Queen or Dany is not a true Queen, she's a pawn.  |
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Post by Ser Duncan on Apr 6, 2016 15:52:37 GMT
Oh and speaking of Queens, there is also that quasi-rape scene with Cersei and Jaime. That was another brutal, sexual scene involving a woman in power.
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Post by Melifeather on Apr 13, 2016 20:46:54 GMT
Well, we've got the report that Rhaella was raped by Aerys, and in an Asha chapter she's "fake" raped by Qarl the Maid, so I'm thinking this is a thing? Are we supposed to wonder if Lyanna was also raped? I dunno  |
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Post by Weasel Pie on Apr 13, 2016 21:09:44 GMT
Well, we've got the report that Rhaella was raped by Aerys, and in an Asha chapter she's "fake" raped by Qarl the Maid, so I'm thinking this is a thing? Are we supposed to wonder if Lyanna was also raped? I dunno did they mention either of those in the show though? Lyanna's "rape" was also mentioned in the show, yes, and I think by Petyr's reaction to Sansa mentioning it, we're supposed to question it. |
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Post by Melifeather on Apr 13, 2016 21:12:43 GMT
Well, we've got the report that Rhaella was raped by Aerys, and in an Asha chapter she's "fake" raped by Qarl the Maid, so I'm thinking this is a thing? Are we supposed to wonder if Lyanna was also raped? I dunno did they mention either of those in the show though? Lyanna's "rape" was also mentioned in the show, yes, and I think by Petyr's reaction to Sansa mentioning it, we're supposed to question it. The show may be trying to tie all of these together symbolically in one scene...and it does seem like we're supposed to question the validity of a rape. |
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but in all seriousness...
I am just creepin' on the conversation. Carry on folks 
