Origins of the Others/WWs?

It's been a theory of mine that the Others were simply men...First Men to be exact, but they were cruel like the Boltons are in the current story. It is further my belief that the Wildlings are descendants of these evil First Men known by the Children as the Others.

I like to imagine Old Nan's tales as actually being tales about the Children of the Forest, and that Old Nan is one of them. It would explain her long lifespan.

How many waves of men invaded Westeros? Three? Four? First Men. Andals. Rhoynar. Targaryen. Seems to me the wheel of time kept bringing the Children conquering invaders. The timeline is wonky, because it's not correct. With each rotation of the wheel the Children setup their Cyvasse game a different way. They put up, changed, or removed a hinge. Each time they got another group of people invading Westeros, but the outcomes were slightly different.

My current thought about the wights are that they are a manifestation of how the hinge was put up, changed, or removed. The wheel of time came around again and reflected the 8000 year old religion of the Ironmen and their drowned men upon the north...only the drowned men manifested themselves as wights.

Patchface says the north is upside down, and they are under water. They are under water, because the essence of the Iron Islands now applies to the north.

One of the questions that I'd like to find an answer to is, is magic everywhere or is it mainly contained north beyond the Wall? The reason why I ask is why the drowned men manifest themselves as wights automatically rising from the dead simply with a breath of cold air?

Craster has been sacrificing his sons. Has for years. He thinks he's offering them to the gods, when in fact before the hinge was manipulated the babies simply perished in the woods like wolfmaid7 asserts, among others. BUT AFTER the hinge was manipulated these child sacrifices became white shadows, also due to the magical, cold air...a theory that I have been promoting for a few years.

It's hard to find the oldest post where I was referring to white shadows, but here's one: Heresy 45



I didn't begin asserting the Others were ordinary men until Heresy discussed Heart of Darkness. My work on the Wheel of Time project seems to agree with those suspicions. At this point in the project it seems as if the white walkers are separate from wights. The reason why I say this is because the white walkers don't appear to mirror any part in the religion of the Drowned God. They mirror Melisandre's creations, so my suspicions point towards Val and her "sister" Dalla before her.

It seems as if I've stumbled upon the source of the wights. It has to do with the manipulation of the warding on the hinge which has has caused the religion of the Ironmen to reflect onto the north. The Ironborn drown their believers and then raise them back to life. Patchface tells us the north is underwater, so in effect the Nights Watch are drowned men, and when they die they rise again stronger, harder, just like the Drowned God religion.

As for Craster...I think he really was leaving them exposed in the woods. "Somebody" - maybe Dalla, maybe Val - maybe Mance - told him it would bring him protection if he left his sons in the woods. Whoever told him that wanted them to make white shadows...drawing their life force out like Melisandre draws shadowbabies from Stannis. Stannis is a grown man, yet Melisandre births shadows like babies. Melisandre draws out life from Stannis like a vampire. Our blood is our life-force, so imo it seems logical that you could take a baby's life-force...his blood, and create a white shadow.[/quote]

I think it's going to turn out that small, inner group of wildlings have been creating the white walkers: Mance, Dalla, Val, and maybe some of the men closest to Mance. Craster has probably been exposing his sons for a long time... wolfmaid7 called that one. What I think is different is that his sacrifices actually do end up getting used to make white shadows, but its a fairly new occurrence beginning shortly before Waymar Royce is killed. The hinge at the Wall has been opened. I'm not sure which way to go with this one, but either Bran did it because he's trying to defeat the Others, or Euron did it in order to conquer Westeros. And of course Euron could just be taking advantage of what Bran is doing. I know it sounds weird...but if you've been following my wheel of time project you probably know what I mean.

Edited to add, something I've also just posted on the W: 

The shadows Melisandre drew from Stannis weren't being skinchanged, so I see no reason to believe that the white shadows would be either. Their shape or form is preserved, because ice preserves.

The wights move, because the cold animates the spirit trapped in the bones. This is the ice version of the stone men whose stoney exteriors appear to trap the living. The reason why the wights rise is due to the warding of the hinge of the Wall. There are interwoven spells. The physical ice of the Wall is the door, but the spells are the hinge that holds the door.

So I agree with you on one point Wolfmaid, the white walkers are separate from the wights. They are not from the same origin. Where we differ, I am thinking, are my thoughts that some form of life-force is drawn upon to create white shadows. The wights are merely a side effect of the warded hinge on the Wall.

You know, I kind of agree with your last statement that they are just taking advantage of the situation.

I haven't decided who manipulated the hinge. I can go either way. It's either Bran or Euron.

I had a sort of epiphany this morning when a poster on the W asked me if I thought the direwolves were given as a way to reshape the future. I think this poster expected me to say that the Children/old gods gifted the direwolves to the Starks for a specific purpose, but it actually caused me to realize that it was the Others that sent the mother direwolf and pups south to make the Starks think they were sent by the old gods. I no longer believe they were sent by the old gods and here's why.

To review my theory that Westeros runs in cycles. The ouroboros is an ancient symbol depicting a snake eating its own tail. What has happened before will happen again. The four major invasions of Westeros need to be viewed from the perspective of the Children. The first group were the First Men, and I believe they were the most dangerous, because they took up the old gods as their "religion". Why is this a bad thing? Because they abused the power that magic allows. They learned that by blood sacrifice they could create white shadow walkers and bring about an extension of winter which would also allow them to raise the dead as wights to use as soldiers. The First Men were so dangerous to the Children that they began referring to them as "the Others". The Children determined that severe action was needed to save Westeros and themselves and they turned to fire magic in order to counter the ice magic the First Men were now using. This may have required massive amounts of blood sacrifice on their part as well, but they would have viewed it as necessary. The comet was conjured, the moon was struck, the meteors rained down on Westeros, and nearly all human life was exterminated. This was how the Long Night ended...the Long Night of terror inflicted upon Westeros by the First Men. There were very few First Men that the Children trusted, and one was the Last Hero. He survived and was given the task as shield in the north, and thus was the origin of House Stark. House Stark's job is to make sure ice magic was never used and to keep offenders north of the Wall. Any remaining First Men were rounded up and pushed north and contained behind a magical hinge...a ward. Physically they probably could still walk past it, but ice magic would no longer work south of the Wall, so they stayed and plotted their return. Eventually castles were built along this hinge and a physical Wall as well. The physical Wall acted like a door, but the warding was still the hinge.

The Children readied themselves for the next rotation of the ouroboros. They knew another invasion was coming, so just like setting up a cyvasse game they changed some pieces around and introduced "religion" into the game. The Andals came with their Faith of the Seven, but they too cut down trees and persecuted the Children, so fighting broke out again. The wisest of them came together and forged a Pact. It's not clear how the Children were able to bring the Andals to the table, but they must have noticed the ruined castles and large basalt chunks of moon meteor and realized the strength of natural disaster that the old gods had at their disposal. The Pact included a "no magic" clause, which likely pleased the Andals since they were so rabid about their faith. The Andals helped fill needed manpower on the Wall and the physical door of the Wall began to take shape.

So to review, the Pact was an agreement to keep humans from practicing magic and discouraged the worshipping of the old gods, instead the Andals were to enforce the Faith of the Seven. Their maesters were supposed to be installed in every major castle to monitor the Houses, instruct the families, and maybe even kill off any gifted children that showed skinchanging ability.

The next rotation of the ouroboros brought the Rhoynar, but somehow they stayed south and only affected Dorne. Nymeria intermarried with the Martells and together they defeated all the smaller kingdoms and united Dorne under one ruler. Maybe the Andals were successful enough at uniting the kingdoms that they were able to keep the Rhoynar in Dorne?

The next rotation of the ouroboros brought the Targaryens and dragons, but not without earlier visits by Targaryens gathering intel. I am wondering if contacts were made with the Children as evidenced by Jenny of Oldstones and her "woods witch"? In any case, fire magic was successful, because ice magic was already contained.

Fast forward to the current story and ice magic is creeping back into the realm. Something has happened to the hinge, or warding on the Wall, because the direwolves are back south of the Wall and so are the wildlings. It's not like the people of Westeros would feel the hinge being opened, but it does have an effect on how situations unfold. The hinge opened and the "pieces on the ouroboros got moved into different positions. The Greyjoys are the next conquerors of Westeros due to them taking the invader position. Ned's Stark's "bastard" gets positioned at the Wall and allows the First Men/Others descendants through the Wall...everyone knows if you invite a faerie in they can work their mischief. The wildlings now have guest right, and with the hinge open they can work ice magic south of the Wall again. There's a giant snowstorm emanating out of Winterfell and the First Men in the crypts are just waiting for someone to let them out.

I was having a very similar thought just now. Dragon fire took out the Undying and dragonglass took out the Other, Ser Puddles. So I see where your going with that.

The Undying are just shells with their essence being held in the heart. So too are the cold ones. But the cold keeps them strong.

I'll try to condense what is actually a very long answer! Part of which can be explained if you read my Drowned Man essay.

In a nutshell, Mance was just taking advantage of ice magic working again, which it hadn't in 8000 years. The dead were rising because of the hinge on the Wall being manipulated, and the 8000 year old religion of the Drowned God was rising the dead as wights. Dalla, and later Val were creating white walkers to scare the Nights Watch into believing the wildlings needed saving. Their plan succeeded, because most of the wildlings are now south of the Wall.