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Post by freyfamilyreunion on Apr 19, 2016 20:13:24 GMT
Lyn Corbray seems to share characteristics with Jon: brown hair, slender build, hotheaded, with an aptitude for the sword. (Heck if Jon had started a relationship with Satin, then it fits perfectly). Dude! When did I miss this? I think school work had fried my brain. After all I pegged Dumbledore as gay from the beginning. One house that I'm particularly interested in is House Lynderly. It's located by the Fingers, a vassal of House Corbray. I'm assuming that it may also have origins in House Manderly due to the similarity of the names, and also may have ties with House Corbray, hence the variants of the Lyn forename in their family. Then name is suspect in second part. LY is a common part of the Corbray name. MDERLY is too close to Manderly for my liking. Given that (by boat) they are not far apart, could it be that the Manderly family landed first in the Fingers and they were ousted like they were in the Reach. Only this time, so refused to move and became this new house? ow what does this have to do with the Others? I've gone on record to state that I think that the Snow Knights beyond the Wall are a con, created to resemble the Others of legend as opposed to reality. I think the real Others may also be the "Merlings" that are referred to in other regions. White, cold, capable of returning from the dead (think Patchface). There seems to be several "old" regions that may have bloodties from these people. Can you do a quick recap for us please. And chuck it over onto the Others/WWs Origins thread? All options on how they came about are being explored there. For the record, I have no idea if Jon and Satin were any more than Lord and Stewart, just like I don't really know if Rhaegar and Ser Arthur were any more than Prince and bodyguard.
As for House Lynderly, my suspicion is that it may be an offshoot of House Manderly perhaps created at some point from a second or third son of the main line (similar to Karstark).
As for the Others, it's a suspicion brought about by Martin's love for Cthullu myths and the belief I have that Martin has little to no extraneous material in this series (yes you read that correctly, a big leap of faith on my part to be sure.) When Tyrion meets with Lord Commander Mormont the first time, Mormont discusses how people around Eastwatch claimed to have seen White Walkers. My guess is these are not the same White Walkers that Will saw, but may instead be the actual "Others" from legend. Tyrion immediately dismisses it saying that smallfolk around Casterly Rock claim to have seen Merlings. I think this is our first hint as to the true nature of the Others. I don't think they are the icy, armored, blue eyed creatures that dissolve upon contact with obsidian, instead I think they are white, amphibious, cold to the touch, and capable of coming back from the dead. I think they are the ones who built the Seastone chair, and the base of Hightower. I think something about the Long Night allowed them to invade Westeros as a whole.
Later Cotter Pyke sends word through his maester that dead things are in the water and the woods around Hardhome (just up the coast of Eastwatch where rumors of White Walker sightings were reported). I think this is the first invasion of the actual Others. I think there may be humans who are helping facilitate this invasion, cough-Petyr-cough.
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Post by Maester Flagons on Apr 20, 2016 17:01:54 GMT
Later Cotter Pyke sends word through his maester that dead things are in the water and the woods around Hardhome (just up the coast of Eastwatch where rumors of White Walker sightings were reported). I think this is the first invasion of the actual Others. I think there may be humans who are helping facilitate this invasion, cough-Petyr-cough. It is an interesting use of words, "dead things in the water." If it were wights that were seen, then why not say wights? I'd be thrilled if the Others are more than just the white walkers we've seen. Others is such a vague term.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Apr 22, 2016 2:59:02 GMT
When Tyrion meets with Lord Commander Mormont the first time, Mormont discusses how people around Eastwatch claimed to have seen White Walkers. My guess is these are not the same White Walkers that Will saw, but may instead be the actual "Others" from legend. This would solve the puzzle about why no one on the east coast is terribly troubled by this sighting. No one is fleeing in terror. If there are two sorts of creatures (and I remember bringing this up very early in my Heresy days) why are one called Others and while other (heh) are termed white walkers. True, it could be like obsidian and dragonglass, two names for the same thing. But the free folk say 'the Others take you/your ___' too, so that would suggest they have two different ideas as to which is which. Additionally, the sighting is of white walkers, not the feared and demonic Others. instead I think they are white, amphibious, cold to the touch, and capable of coming back from the dead. I think they are the ones who built the Seastone chair, and the base of Hightower. Nice bringing tying in of all the varying parts of the story. I quite like the idea of them being a race apart and capable of more than destruction. It has them holding a mirror up to humanity. Both are capable of great things.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Apr 22, 2016 3:01:58 GMT
If it were wights that were seen, then why not say wights? Correct me if I'm wrong, but do the characters themselves refer to them as wights, or is that something we the readers are privy to? I honestly can't remember. You're most likely right and the dead things in the water are not wights, since he didn't say wights.
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Post by Maester Flagons on Apr 22, 2016 3:19:05 GMT
If it were wights that were seen, then why not say wights? Correct me if I'm wrong, but do the characters themselves refer to them as wights, or is that something we the readers are privy to? I honestly can't remember. You're most likely right and the dead things in the water are not wights, since he didn't say wights. They do use the term wights. A search through ADWD for the word wight turned up 22 uses. The old books, I don't know how often. I believe the the term white walkers is used far less than either wights and Others. Others sees a lot of use as curses though. That could be an interesting search, i.e. all the terms used for the cold baddies and how many times they were used.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 19:37:46 GMT
And I often wonder if Others are meant to describe not just the White Walkers, but the Giants and Children of the Forest as well.
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Post by Melifeather on Jun 23, 2016 15:08:19 GMT
There's an interesting discussion on Heresy right now that is exploring whether or not the Night's King was in fact a greenseer like Bloodraven, enthroned somewhere, possibly the Black Gate.
Lets examine his story and see how symbolically it could simply be a fanciful oral retelling.
Night's King was a Lord Commander Bloodraven was a Lord Commander
Night's King wed to pale Other Bloodraven wed to pale weirwood
Night's King gave his seed to Other Bloodraven gave up having children
Night's King ruled during the night, man during the day Bloodraven ruled the realm most of adult life, now enthroned underground in the dark
Night's King caught sacrificing to the Others Bloodraven suspected of blood sacrifice, and of creating white walkers
Night's King ensorcelled Watch for 13 years Bloodraven served as Lord Commander for 13 years before becoming greenseer
Night's King taken down by Lord of Winterfell and King Beyond the Wall Bloodraven will be replaced by a son of Winterfell
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Post by Ser Duncan on Jun 23, 2016 16:59:15 GMT
Bloodraven served as Lord Commander for 13 years before becoming greenseer Where did that info come from? The World book or the Dunk & Egg series? Bloodraven will be replaced by a son of Winterfell Technically, Bran is the Lord of Winterfell. He's the oldest true born son after Robb, so Winterfell is his. Just nobody knows it because he's thought to be dead. Nice parallels though. And yeah, in order for the NK to do the things he did, I think he must have been a skinchanger. If he skinchanged his men into doing what he wanted, a la Varamyr with his animals, then possibly this is where the wildlings get their idea of it being an abomination to skinchange another person.
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Post by Melifeather on Jun 23, 2016 17:47:28 GMT
Where did that info come from? The World book or the Dunk & Egg series? I saw it in the wiki, so am assuming it was in the World book, but I have not tried searching the text to see if it's in there.
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Post by snowfyre on Jun 25, 2016 17:50:19 GMT
World book, yes:
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Jun 26, 2016 1:10:12 GMT
I'm wondering if some of those parallels should actually be inversions. Such as: Night's King taken down by Lord of Winterfell and King Beyond the Wall Bloodraven will be replaced by a son of Winterfell Perhaps Bloodraven JOINS with the son of Winterfell and the King Beyond the Wall to take down the Lord of Winterfell? There's still the speculation that Bran and Jon will be pitted against each other at some point... And: Night's King caught sacrificing to the Others Bloodraven suspected of blood sacrifice, and of creating white walkers Or was Bloodraven himself the sacrifice to prevent the creation of more Others? Just spitballing here.
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Post by Maester Flagons on Jun 26, 2016 9:32:24 GMT
The HBO's version of the creation of the first Other is not a Stark as far as I can tell. Light hair and no beard. Can't remember the eye color. It is weird that the Night King resembles Bran. ? The book version will have some similarities - the powers from the Singers,old powers, weirwoods or some mixture of those were used to bring the Others about. Yet I doubt the show version hit the nail on the head.
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Post by Melifeather on Jun 26, 2016 16:23:09 GMT
Perhaps Bloodraven JOINS with the son of Winterfell and the King Beyond the Wall to take down the Lord of Winterfell? There's still the speculation that Bran and Jon will be pitted against each other at some point... I can see this happening as well. I was just trying to draw parallels between Bloodraven and the Nights King to support the argument that the greenseer position could be also called Night's King.
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