|
Post by Weasel Pie on May 5, 2016 0:49:33 GMT
I'm going to say yes to GRRM using this stuff; given that he uses the term born with the dead in GoT. firstborn sons came across this bit in GoT Bran I: They find the direwolf pups: His father tossed the antler to the side and cleansed his hands in the snow. "I'm surprised she lived long enough to whelp," he said. His voice broke the spell.
"Maybe she didn't," Jory said. "I've heard tales ... maybe the bitch was already dead when the pups came."
"Born with the dead," another man put it. "Worse luck."yup, that's the foundation of my whole OP lol
|
|
|
Post by Weasel Pie on Jan 31, 2017 1:08:41 GMT
Jon Snow is the son of GOd (the Great Other) - I don't see any way around it.
Dragging this up from the dead...
|
|
|
Post by Weasel Pie on Sept 1, 2017 19:57:35 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Weasel Pie on Sept 7, 2017 2:53:48 GMT
Could be - wasn't it you who was focusing on the word "chink" meaning "weak place" or "crack through which something can breach"? Absolutely. I interpreted it like a "chink in the armor" meaning a vulnerability, I compared it to a chink in the armor of a dragon. I brought it up on a couple of threads. I just did a little search about Beauty and the Beast, since it features a magical rose AND has GRRM written all over it. We all know that it's pretty much the Bael story. A merchant gets lost and is given shelter and food (guest right). Without permission, he plucks a beautiful rose, angering the magical creature who owns it. The merchant has to make a deal to give the Beast his daughter, or he would be killed. Now if that seriously doesn't sound like the Starks were doomed to give up their daughters... Anyway, in my travels I was just now reading about Teutonic Mythology, some stuff written by Jacob Grimm. After several pages mentioning Wutan, Siegfried, Freyr - those Norse myths we're so familiar with in relation to ASOIAF - old Jake tells me about banished men who are imprisoned in caves, and are there so long their beards grow into the stone. One of them has only one eye. There are several stories about vanished kings who are lodged inside mountains. Yeah. So. there is a... GLORIOUS... revelation about entering these magical mountains. This begins with a story about a sad-seeming white-robed maiden who has a bunch of keys, and who performs all sorts of niceties for the smallfolk, like turning their flaxpods and lilies into gold. This fleshes out into the story of a poor couple with a child who the white maiden took a liking to and gave flowers to, but the parents kept them apart because they were afraid, and the child grew sick and died. All these stories are about the white maiden being somehow entrapped and looking for a way to be released."The folktale still betrays a fellow feeling for the white woman's grief at the attempted deliverance always being interrupted and put off to some indefinitely distant date." One way for her to reach deliverance involves all sorts of crazy stuff with a baby and... a tree. All sorts of crazy conditions need to be met but the bottom line is that " a lime-tree shall be planted... the first child that therein lies is doomed to be brought from life to death by the sword, and then will salvation ensue. In all these tales, the arrival of the future event is linked with the germinating of a tree..." Another barrier to her deliverance is that she's often very ugly - in the form of a snake or toad or dragon - and has to be kissed three times. Anyway, this all ties together. You have the lost King stuck inside a mountain with his treasure, and the white woman is the guardian. To get into the cavern/mountain, a special plant is needed "to burst the door." A wonderflower is placed in the hat, and the doors open. Uh, the door also talks, and if you lose your flower, it will slam shut on you and cut off your hell. " The flower is said to be blue, the color most proper to gods and spirits... sometimes it is called a schlussel-blume (key-flower) because it locks the vault, and as a symbol of the key-wearing white woman... who has power to unlock the treasure... also luck-flower but most frequently wunderblume" - TL;DR Rhaegar gave Lyanna a bunch of "keys." Charms to pass through the wards places on the Wall.
Were they used at the Black Gate to fool the gatekeeper so Lyanna could go North? Or were they used by "Coldhands" and his ilk to bypass the magic that prevents them from passing? Or could they be used by the Others to thwart the magic of the Wall?
|
|
|
Post by Melifeather on Sept 7, 2017 3:01:23 GMT
Could be - wasn't it you who was focusing on the word "chink" meaning "weak place" or "crack through which something can breach"? A chink can also be the reverse. Instead of a small opening it can be something small to fill an opening, like when you place a folded napkin under a table leg. " The flower is said to be blue, the color most proper to gods and spirits... sometimes it is called a schlussel-blume (key-flower) because it locks the vault, and as a symbol of the key-wearing white woman... who has power to unlock the treasure... also luck-flower but most frequently wunderblume" I like associating blue flowers with keys - opening up a door to a different sort of life.
|
|
|
Post by Weasel Pie on Sept 7, 2017 3:04:31 GMT
maybe even an undead Brandon (Coldhands) in a secret sacred place. Something considered an abomination, but there was no fear of repercussions because "they can't kill us - can't shed blood in this sacred place". You know I think Lyanna had a thing with an Other, don't you? And that I suspected they met in the crypts of Winterfell, and that there is a secret passage there that goes under the Wall. Well, not so secret because we know about it. I'm on board with "Coldhands" or someone similar being the Daddy and visiting Lyanna in the same way. The only problem would be how to get them through the Wall since they can't pass. Lyanna just had to have a special key to help him make the journey. Which I've just determined is the Blue Rose.
|
|
|
Post by Melifeather on Sept 7, 2017 3:52:24 GMT
Some Pig No Doubt sorry for the derailment, I'm going to be starting a thread about the schlussenblume and will move stuff there so we can get back on topic... Any chance Howland Reed gave Lyanna the "keys"? I just thought of something mildly amusing if anyone else is of a certain age and remembers H.R. Puffenstuff? Or Puff the Magic Dragon? (H.R. Schlussen-stuff, er blume)
|
|
|
Post by Weasel Pie on Sept 7, 2017 3:57:18 GMT
Any chance Howland Reed gave Lyanna the "keys"? I just thought of something mildly amusing if anyone else is of a certain age and remembers H.R. Puffenstuff? Or Puff the Magic Dragon? (H.R. Schlussen-stuff, er blume) Someone could have been warging Rhaegar, for sure. I figured it was Bran a while ago - that since Bran wanted to be a Knight, he took the opportunity to help out Howland when Howland prayed to the old gods for help. He could have then warged Rhaegar when Rhaegar presented the blue roses to Lyanna, and that Bran gave them to her because that's how the story goes. But if the roses are keys, it still makes sense for Bran to have warged Rhaegar to give them to Lyanna. Sure I remember the Puff the Magic Dragon song?
|
|
|
Post by Melifeather on Sept 7, 2017 4:08:43 GMT
H. R. Pufnstuf was a kids show in the late 60's-early 70's with live actors and puppets. H.R. Pufnstuf (hand rolled marijuana) was a friendly dragon and mayor of Living Island.
|
|
|
Post by Weasel Pie on Sept 8, 2017 13:42:28 GMT
I'm trying to reconcile the black hands of a sentient wight with a fever that killed her Lyanna's palms, dead and black, caused one of the worst reactions I've ever had from the RLJ crew. Hysterical. I'm all for it. Reminder - on the show, Daario talles Dany that the blue rose is for fever.I'm convinced the blue rose makes some kind of metaphorical key to something having to do with crossing the wall or becoming undead/dealing with being undead. Does it resurrect? We can say the weirwood paste was a "key" for opening Bran's third eye, and the shade of evening is some sort of "key" for Dany to see other dimensions/the past/immortals - the warlocks talk about Dany staying with them forever - and btw I think the pool in the HoBaW has shade of the evening in it.
|
|
|
Post by Weasel Pie on Sept 8, 2017 14:25:30 GMT
the inverse would be Lyanna turning south...to Dorne...to confront something else undead/resurrected. Like something born in fire. Summerhall.
|
|
|
Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Sept 8, 2017 14:29:05 GMT
Weasel Pie since I can't quote on mobile: I'm convinced the blue rose makes some kind of metaphorical key to something having to do with crossing the wall or becoming undead/dealing with being undead. Mama direwolf- south of the wall. No one knows how she got across. Mama direwolf was carrying pups. Lyanna - wolf girl - pup, old gods, blue rose growing through chink in wall of ice. Undead, but pregnancy breaks warding?
|
|
|
Post by Weasel Pie on Sept 8, 2017 14:38:18 GMT
Weasel Pie since I can't quote on mobile: I'm convinced the blue rose makes some kind of metaphorical key to something having to do with crossing the wall or becoming undead/dealing with being undead. Mama direwolf- south of the wall. No one knows how she got across. Mama direwolf was carrying pups. Lyanna - wolf girl - pup, old gods, blue rose growing through chink in wall of ice. Undead, but pregnancy breaks warding? Ah I like it! I'm also wondering about the NK's bride, what the deal was there since they were both able to cross. Need to reread that. Also trying to tie in the significance of Bael leaving the flower for the Stark Lord. In the meantime, from the wiki for GRRM's Fevre Dream novel: Heh. I'm also trying to fit in the fact that Bael's son is destined to unknowingly fight and kill his own father - accidental kinslaying. And that we've bounced around that Bran is ALL Brandons of the past, I could see our Bran skinchanging his Uncle to go out for some kind of rumspringa in the Kingswood.
|
|
|
Post by freyfamilyreunion on Sept 8, 2017 14:41:53 GMT
Weasel Pie since I can't quote on mobile: I'm convinced the blue rose makes some kind of metaphorical key to something having to do with crossing the wall or becoming undead/dealing with being undead. Mama direwolf- south of the wall. No one knows how she got across. Mama direwolf was carrying pups. Lyanna - wolf girl - pup, old gods, blue rose growing through chink in wall of ice. Undead, but pregnancy breaks warding? Ah I like it! I'm also wondering about the NK's bride, what the deal was there since they were both able to cross. Need to reread that. Also trying to tie in the significance of Bael leaving the flower for the Stark Lord. In the meantime, from the wiki for GRRM's Fevre Dream novel: Heh. I'm also trying to fit in the fact that Bael's son is destined to unknowingly fight and kill his own father - accidental kinslaying. And that we've bounced around that Bran is ALL Brandons of the past, I could see our Bran skinchanging his Uncle to go out for some kind of rumspringa in the Kingswood. If I remember correctly in Fevre Dream, the main vampire had grey eyes as well.
|
|
|
Post by freyfamilyreunion on Sept 8, 2017 14:46:56 GMT
Weasel Pie since I can't quote on mobile: I'm convinced the blue rose makes some kind of metaphorical key to something having to do with crossing the wall or becoming undead/dealing with being undead. Mama direwolf- south of the wall. No one knows how she got across. Mama direwolf was carrying pups. Lyanna - wolf girl - pup, old gods, blue rose growing through chink in wall of ice. Undead, but pregnancy breaks warding? How about combining a few theories. Blue roses = wild white roses dyed blue with sloe?
|
|