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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Jul 18, 2017 3:56:05 GMT
That is glorious.
I will just throw in here as well that according to my highly subjective Rebellion timeline, "Sam's" nameday falls somewhere in the first of the year - like January/early February. He was born in 283, so if the Sack took place in late 283 like I think it did, Sam would be "Still a babe at the breast. A year old, give or take a turn or two."
The only thing to reconcile would be this:
"Do you have any idea what Rhaenys and Aegon looked like? (Hair color, eye color, etc.) "
Rhaenys looked more like a Martell, Aegon more a Targaryen.
"More" a Targaryen can be interpreted pretty loosely, but Sam in current form has pretty much zero typical Targaryen features. He has dark hair, which would be Martell or a throwback Targ look (how far back is TBD, as I remain convinced that Rhaella was black-haired like her grandmother and probably her mother as well), and his eyes are described as "pale"...pale what, I don't know, I guess it could be purple but omitting ANY character noticing that seems a hard sell. Are we supposed to believe that no one can see that his eyes are purple because they're so squished in fat?***
***ETA: GRRM actually answered this in May 2001: What color do you have in mind when you write that someone has "pale" eyes?
Very light grey or blue. In the most extreme cases, like Roose Bolton's, the eyes would look almost colorless.
This reminds me of something I was pondering the other day, however: Ned recalls in his POV the crushed head of little Aegon after the Sack. Does he ever at any time mention Aegon by name, or is it always "the boy" or "Rhaegar's son"?
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Post by Weasel Pie on Jul 18, 2017 22:14:12 GMT
I thought I'd add some passages I found in the book that made me think of your theory: Brilliant additions! Especially this one... If Aegon was a babe at the tower of joy, there is a reenactment of sorts which happens in Sam's first chapter. Sam is laying on the ground being guarded by Pyp, with the "bat ears", the auroch, or bull, Grenn, and Jon Snow, the sword of the morning.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 27, 2017 15:07:01 GMT
Couple of show spoilers here, nothing crazy but still wanted to add the tags. Bottom line is that I'm more convinced than ever. I believe that Sam is destined to reinvigorate and reunite the South, both the Reach and Dorne, as the Targ/Martell. There has to be a reason that Jaime scoffed at giving away Highgarden to Bronn. Once Sam finds out that Dany slaughtered Randyll and Dickon, all bets may be off. It's perfectly logical that Highgarden and the Reach would accept a Marcher Lord, and Dorne of course would embrace a Martell - especially after the show has dispatched Ellaria and the Sand Snakes. What we'll see will be the Dance of the Dragons, and it will be Dany against Sam. Jon Snow has a completely different role as ICE/the magical baby with a specific destiny. Sam has three things central to the plot in both the show and the books. Gilly, Monster/Steelsong and the horn and I think all of this parallels Rhaegar of course. Gilly, because she's the Northern maiden who bore a child (not his) who was destined for a magical sacrifice. Monster/Steelsong because he is the parallel to Rhaegar being involved in babyswapping an heir to a throne with said magical baby. There is also the possibility that the NK is heading South to find this baby - not sure yet on this aspect, since it hasn't been made clear what the NKs motivations are. And of course the books includes two babies. And the horn because he is the one destined to blow it, whether it's the horn of Joruman or a dragon-binding horn, or both, we don't know. What we do know is that GRRM provided us the name of Horn Hill for a reason. Were the Tarlys bound to the Dragons? Were they so bound that they played an important part in attempting to save the crown prince, under the pretense that it was their own Tarly child? As I've said before, the Brienne chapter about the importance of getting the eggs to the Tarly wedding could not be any more obvious in this context. And Randyll's statements about already having a Queen in the show, I don't think he was talking about Cersei. Yes, I'm keeping show/book facts separate but... it's still all adding up. Now that Sam has left his bookish life to emulate the deeds of greater men... with a Valyrian Steel Sword. As a child [Rhaegar[ read obsessively, to the point that jests were made about his habits. He became a noted warrior later in life, although he did not initially seem inclined to martial habits. However, apparently by something he had read, Rhaegar became motivated to become a warrior.ETA I also need to mention our new member essosiwatch , who made this comment in the Cat of the Canals reread thread: Which of course fits in perfectly that there are two Aegons. A fake, Young Griff, and a hidden real one, Sam, who has been on a journey based on lies.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 27, 2017 15:32:14 GMT
Sam has three things central to the plot in both the show and the books. Gilly, Monster/Steelsong and the horn and I think all of this parallels Rhaegar of course.
Also, if you think about it, This makes sense from a GRRM-LOTR love affair perspective too - I mean, Frodo (Jon) gets all the love and certainly has his share of courage and brave deeds, but really, Samwise is the unsung hero of the tale. Where would Frodo be without Sam? And of course after all is said and done, Frodo voluntarily gives up his hobbity life and sails on to the Grey Havens, confident in the knowledge that Sam can (and should) continue on in Bag End, where Sam eventually becomes Mayor ("king") of the Shire, leading peacefully for 49 years.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 27, 2017 15:44:11 GMT
This makes sense from a GRRM-LOTR love affair perspective too - I mean, Frodo (Jon) gets all the love and certainly has his share of courage and brave deeds, but really, Samwise is the unsung hero of the tale. Where would Frodo be without Sam? And of course after all is said and done, Frodo voluntarily gives up his hobbity life and sails on to the Grey Havens, confident in the knowledge that Sam can (and should) continue on in Bag End, where Sam eventually becomes Mayor ("king") of the Shire, leading peacefully for 49 years. Don't think this needs a spoiler, lol Hella. Not sure if I said that upthread, but GRRM rooting for the chubby nerd in the form of Samwise is what initially led me to this idea of Samwell being the hidden prince.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 27, 2017 15:49:29 GMT
Going to add that because of this thread, I'm going to be rereading Cat of the Canals to see if there are more clues.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 27, 2017 15:54:27 GMT
LOL...I was following your spoiler lead before you edited!
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Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 27, 2017 15:56:17 GMT
LOL...I was following your spoiler lead before you edited! lol sorry I edited it like ten times - my bad
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Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 27, 2017 17:15:08 GMT
Samwise Gamgee after waking on the Field of Cormallen - after the ring is destroyed.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Sept 5, 2017 0:53:36 GMT
Adding a quote - why should it be Dickon's? Why the odd choice of words about Sam's mother?
Until the dawn of his fifteenth name day, when he had been awakened to find his horse saddled and ready. Three men-at-arms had escorted him into a wood near Horn Hill, where his father was skinning a deer. "You are almost a man grown now, and my heir," Lord Randyll Tarly had told his eldest son, his long knife laying bare the carcass as he spoke. "You have given me no cause to disown you, but neither will I allow you to inherit the land and title that should be Dickon's.
"If you do not, then on the morrow we shall have a hunt, and somewhere in these woods your horse will stumble, and you will be thrown from the saddle to die … or so I will tell your mother. She has a woman's heart and finds it in her to cherish even you, and I have no wish to cause her pain. Please do not imagine that it will truly be that easy, should you think to defy me. Nothing would please me more than to hunt you down like the pig you are." His arms were red to the elbow as he laid the skinning knife aside. "So. There is your choice. The Night's Watch"—he reached inside the deer, ripped out its heart, and held it in his fist, red and dripping—"or this."
AGoT Jon IV
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Sept 11, 2017 3:20:41 GMT
Weasel Pie , found this for you while digging for something else. Gilly smelled of milk and garlic and musty old fur, but he was used to that by now. They were good smells, so far as Sam was concerned. He liked sleeping next to her. It made him remember times long past, when he had shared a huge bed at Horn Hill with two of his sisters. That had ended when Lord Randyll decided it was making him soft as a girl. Sleeping alone in my own cold cell never made me any harder or braver, though. He wondered what his father would say if he could see him now. I killed one of the Others, my lord, he imagined saying. I stabbed him with an obsidian dagger, and my Sworn Brothers call me Sam the Slayer now. His dreams were strange that night. He was back at Horn Hill, at the castle, but his father was not there. It was Sam's castle now. Jon Snow was with him. Lord Mormont too, the Old Bear, and Grenn and Dolorous Edd and Pyp and Toad and all his other brothers from the Watch, but they wore bright colors instead of black. Sam sat at the high table and feasted them all, cutting thick slices off a roast with his father's greatsword Heartsbane. There were sweet cakes to eat and honeyed wine to drink, there was singing and dancing, and everyone was warm. When the feast was done he went up to sleep; not to the lord's bedchamber where his mother and father lived but to the room he had once shared with his sisters. Only instead of his sisters it was Gilly waiting in the huge soft bed, wearing nothing but a big shaggy fur, milk leaking from her breasts.
Aegon and his two sisters. His father learning that he, Aegon, defeated an Other. And after the warm and celebratory feast, he goes to the room he shared with his sisters only to find a shaggy, furry northern wild girl who has recently given birth to an incest baby...a son that was taken from her and switched out for the infant son of a king.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Sept 11, 2017 13:51:59 GMT
Aegon and his two sisters. His father learning that he, Aegon, defeated an Other. And after the warm and celebratory feast, he goes to the room he shared with his sisters only to find a shaggy, furry northern wild girl who has recently given birth to an incest baby...a son that was taken from her and switched out for the infant son of a king. this is awesome stuff! Totally fits the narrative. Rhaegar (Sam) saves a pregnant/new mother and her baby from an incest eugenics club, where the male babies are marked as sacrifices (or for some other purpose) to magical beings. I need to reread about when Sam first meets Gilly to see if there are any strange clues in there that might parallel the ToH. LOVE the passage about Aegon and his two sisters/Sam and his two sisters.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Sept 11, 2017 14:00:08 GMT
LOVE the passage about Aegon and his two sisters/Sam and his two sisters. There are a few more Samgon passages that caught my eye too, I will post them tonight!
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Post by Melifeather on Sept 12, 2017 4:02:55 GMT
I will repost my baby swap inversion analysis to see if it helps spark ideas.
Lord Commander Jon Snow Lord Commander Bloodraven
North of the Wall South in Kings Landing
Mance Raydar - King Beyond the Wall Rhaegar Targaryen - the King of the South who never was
Gilly Wylla (Lyanna?)
Mance’s son Rhaegar’s son
Gilly’s son - not a bastard - yet a child of incest Wylla’s (aka Lyanna’s) son - incestuous bastard child
Samwell Tarly - not the father Ned Stark - not the father
Jon swapped Mance's son for Gilly’s to protect Mance’s son. Bloodraven swapped Rhaegar's son for Wylla’s to protect Rhaegar’s son.
Mance’s son went with Sam to keep him safe away from the Wall. Rhaegar’s son went with Ned to keep him safe and eventually go to the Wall.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Sept 16, 2017 13:51:28 GMT
Adding a passage from aGoT Jon IV, in which Randyll Tarly attempts a blood-magic ritual on Samwell. To wake the dragon?
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