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Post by Weasel Pie on Apr 9, 2016 13:35:44 GMT
Most of you already know all about these answers I got from GRRM, but here they are again. Is the A World of Ice and Fire App canon? Nope. Only the books are canon.  Then I asked him about the World Book, and this was his answer. Is the World of Ice and Fire book canon? The answer is that there are deliberate mistakes. And it would be almost impossible to know what those deliberate mistakes are until all the novels are written.  |
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Post by Ser Duncan on Apr 9, 2016 17:01:55 GMT
This is brilliant! I loved it when you first let us know the man's answers and I still love it!
Now what's interesting in his second answer is that he saying the reason the World book isn't canon is because of the errors and omissions that've been placed there. In other words, he telling us straight up that the World book contains mistakes placed there on purpose.
I do wonder if Martin is reluctant to call the World book canon because it was not written solely by him. Meaning, the errors and omissions where not placed there by him, therefore it's not his story entirely. And what would Martin have done differently had it been written solely by him?
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Post by Melifeather on Apr 9, 2016 17:37:38 GMT
I do wonder if Martin is reluctant to call the World book canon because it was not written solely by him. Meaning, the errors and omissions where not placed there by him, therefore it's not his story entirely. And what would Martin have done differently had it been written solely by him? Nah, I think he was a willing participant, but it was meant as an in world reference book...something written by a maester that would reflect a history pleasing to his king. |
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Post by Ser Duncan on Apr 9, 2016 17:43:03 GMT
Nah, I think he was a willing participant Of course he is, his name's on the book. I wasn't disputing his willingness and input to the book, just the fact it was not written solely by him. Had he not had collaborators I think he would count the WB as canon. but it was meant as an in world reference book...something written by a maester that would reflect a history pleasing to his king. And we that in the main series as well. That is canon, so I don't think he means it's not canon based on the fact that mistakes and omission happened in the maester's writing, because it happens in books written solely by him and they are canon. |
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Post by Melifeather on Apr 9, 2016 17:45:28 GMT
I can see how GRRM would separate the two. Canon means something written solely by him...semi-canon as written partially by him, but I also get the sense that "canon" is material that we can use to support our arguments, while "semi-canon" is material that wouldn't be factual enough to be used as support.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Apr 9, 2016 17:58:06 GMT
In a normal conversation, when someone says "this is canon" it means "this is a true fact in the universe of the story." What I believe, for example, is that while it's canon that Yandel believes Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna, it is not canon that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna.
And I can't think of a more glaring example of something in the WB that GRRM - or anyone else helping him write - has made deliberately fuzzy.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Apr 9, 2016 20:36:24 GMT
Ah see now we're talking bout the definition of canon. Is canon solely what is true in a story, i.e. if a character tells a lie, does that mean what the character said is not canon?
Example:- Sansa remembers she gave The Hound a kiss, is that not canon? In the actual events she never gives Sandor a kiss, he leaves without getting one, just a song from his Little Bird. So her false memory of the events are not canon, even though they are her beliefs?
To me her memory, wrong as it is, is still canon. It is false, but it is still written in the story by Martin.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Apr 9, 2016 20:38:47 GMT
Example:- Sansa remembers she gave The Hound a kiss, is that not canon? In the actual events she never gives Sandor a kiss, he leaves without getting one, just a song from his Little Bird. So her false memory of the events are not canon, even though they are her beliefs? To me her memory, wrong as it is, is still canon. It is false, but it is still written in the story by Martin. We're on the same page. It's canon Sansa remembers a kiss. It's canon she has a false memory. |
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Post by wolfmaid7 on Apr 11, 2016 0:36:02 GMT
In a normal conversation, when someone says "this is canon" it means "this is a true fact in the universe of the story." What I believe, for example, is that while it's canon that Yandel believes Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna, it is not canon that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna.And I can't think of a more glaring example of something in the WB that GRRM - or anyone else helping him write - has made deliberately fuzzy.  This is it,this is it.No matter how much you tell people this it don't sink in.It still doesn't sink in. |
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Post by Ser Duncan on Apr 11, 2016 2:15:18 GMT
 This is it,this is it.No matter how much you tell people this it don't sink in.It still doesn't sink in. I think part of the problem is people feel just because it's canon, that it is true. Most folks here, and on threads like Heresy, make it a point to differentiate the two. Canon can be either true or false knowledge that we get from the story. It's up to us to figure out what's false and what is true within the stories we read in each character's POV. That is, until Martin gives us the answers to our questions. |
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Post by wolfmaid7 on Apr 12, 2016 0:23:43 GMT
This is it,this is it.No matter how much you tell people this it don't sink in.It still doesn't sink in. I think part of the problem is people feel just because it's canon, that it is true. Most folks here, and on threads like Heresy, make it a point to differentiate the two. Canon can be either true or false knowledge that we get from the story. It's up to us to figure out what's false and what is true within the stories we read in each character's POV. That is, until Martin gives us the answers to our questions. Very true.Weasel pie can attest to this.Sadly,many still don't get that it can be canon but false.On Westeros.org we still have arguements about this and its frustrating. |
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This is it,this is it.No matter how much you tell people this it don't sink in.It still doesn't sink in.