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Post by Ser Duncan on May 18, 2016 15:18:14 GMT
Sansa says to Jon "You are the son of the last true Warden of the North" which can be taken a few ways! Was Ned? Was Roose the last true Warden? Or was someone else the last "true" Warden? She also skips over a discussion of Bran and Rickon as the next in line for the position. I don't think she meant she's discounting her brother's claims, I think she meant Jon's also the son of the last true warden of the north, Ned, and as such he still has responsibilities. He's the only one old enough and in any position to help fight a war against the Boltons, it's got nothing to do with successions. Even Sansa has no claim to Winterfell so long as both Bran and Rickon are alive, so it's not like either of them are taking Winterfell for themselves. She's basically telling him, if they don't take back their home, none of them will be safe. And frankly, without the oldest of Ned's kids taking Winterfell back, none of them even has a claim.
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Post by min on May 18, 2016 15:18:22 GMT
I like this a lot. Since last ep I've been thinking about Jon's dream in which he is armored in black ice wielding a fiery sword, and I can't help but feel that this was a premonition of what he will become after he is 'corrupted' by Mel's fire magic. He's atop the wall swinging away at his NW brothers, his family, all the people he loves, while screaming that he's the lord of Winterfell. I think Mel's resurrection is going to give him the wrong kind of magical infusion and send him down sortof an Anakin Skywalker path. Ghost is going to have to lure him away from the Dark Side. Remember that Melisandre works with shadowmagic. I think GRRM must be fairly knowledgeable about the writings of Carl Jung, and according to Carl Jung, we all have a "shadow" aspect of our personality. It contains our darker impulses that we tend to disassociate ourselves from. When Melisandre conjured forth the shadow assassin, she did so by drawing forth Stannis' shadow. In other words, Stannis' negative impulses towards his brother. Deep down he wanted to commit one of the biggest taboos in Westeros, he wanted to kill his brother. Melisandre made it happen by literally turning this negative part of Stannis' psyche and giving it a type of physical form.
I think Lady Stoneheart contains the negative aspects of Catelyn. Alive, Catelyn was a fairly well rounded mostly positive character. But she did have her dark side, as Jon can attest. Lady Stoneheart just contains Cat's dark vengeful side.
I think if Melisandre does indeed bring Jon back from the dead, the same thing is going to happen. She will use Jon's shadow self to bring him back from the dead, and in doing so his negative traits will be controlling. The first book is full of Jon's negative thoughts, that he keeps buried deep. He imagines Ben dead on the side of a road, after Benjen angers him when he gets to Castle Black. He dreams about killing his father and killing his brother and taking Winterfell for himself. These are the traits that will fuel Unjon.
I'd like to lift this post and put it in the resurrection thread because D&D are giving every indication that Jon is resurrected with fire whether Mel performs the kiss on the show or not. He was dead, he's now alive in some fashion. He eats and drinks; just like Mel, Thoros and Beric. He feels pain and his wounds are healed. He feels the cold. Mel and Thoros both say that Rahloo is light and warmth. I think it's going down the way FreyFamilyReunion surmises. Jon himself has to be forged into lightbringer, the extension of the sword. Forged with fire, ice and blood. Is Jon the snow lion or Hrakkar? The heart of the lion of Westeros? Jon makes a point of saying he was stabbed in the heart. awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Hrakkar Drogo hunts a white lion and gives Dany the skin to cloak herself. Although I think Dany's vision of the white lion taller than a man, refers to Brienne; it's another allusion to the character of the white lion. Strength, bravery and honor. Now resurrected, he seems to have lost that part of himself or he doesn't care.
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Post by cooterian15 on May 19, 2016 2:56:49 GMT
Drogo hunts a white lion and gives Dany the skin to cloak herself. Although I think Dany's vision of the white lion taller than a man, refers to Brienne; it's another allusion to the character of the white lion. Strength, bravery and honor. Now resurrected, he seems to have lost that part of himself or he doesn't care. Wanted to first give a nod to this interesting theory about Brienne. Well done. "Three times is a Charm". Having watched E4 now three times I am drawn yet again to the fire-pyre of the Dosh Khaleen hut, where Dany emerges yet again, unburnt. The scene that drew my attention in this three-peat is Jorah and Daario Naharis approaching Dany while the Dothraki are knee bent in submission. My question..your honor...is it possible that at some point Dany can cure Jorah of his stone man kiss? Whether it be blood or fire magic, or something entirely different. I wonder if we will not see Jorah emerge out of some "Texas A&M Bonfire" cured only to become one of the three heads of the dragon. Thanks for the feedback.
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Post by Weasel Pie on May 19, 2016 3:01:45 GMT
is it possible that at some point Dany can cure Jorah of his stone man kiss? Whether it be blood or fire magic, or something entirely different. I wonder if we will not see Jorah emerge out of some "Texas A&M Bonfire" cured only to become one of the three heads of the dragon. For Jorah to be the dragon awakened from stone?
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 19, 2016 3:04:27 GMT
My question..your honor...is it possible that at some point Dany can cure Jorah of his stone man kiss? Whether it be blood or fire magic, or something entirely different. I wonder if we will not see Jorah emerge out of some "Texas A&M Bonfire" cured only to become one of the three heads of the dragon. Now that would be something. I know the books don't seem to matter in these kind of details, but don't the stone men fear fire? That's the impression I got from the fight on the barge with Tyrion and Young Griff, they used the torches to hold them off and throw them overboard. The one to attack Tyrion seemed braver the others and that's how he got hold of Tyrion.
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Post by cooterian15 on May 19, 2016 3:11:19 GMT
is it possible that at some point Dany can cure Jorah of his stone man kiss? Whether it be blood or fire magic, or something entirely different. I wonder if we will not see Jorah emerge out of some "Texas A&M Bonfire" cured only to become one of the three heads of the dragon. For Jorah to be the dragon awakened from stone? As I said it was a passing thought, or could have been what I had for dinner tonight! Still I wonder. Perhaps someone not as lazy as I could tell us if Jorah is linked to the Targaryans.
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Post by Weasel Pie on May 19, 2016 3:15:46 GMT
if Jorah is linked to the Targaryans. Some tire-kicking has been done on the idea that the Mormonts were somehow part of Dany's misremembered childhood, and that Jorah was not selling slaves, but trafficking "fugitives." The idea is out there for sure. I think Jorah was under some kind of spell by the Hightowers regardless.
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Post by cooterian15 on May 19, 2016 3:21:07 GMT
if Jorah is linked to the Targaryans. Some tire-kicking has been done on the idea that the Mormonts were somehow part of Dany's misremembered childhood, and that Jorah was not selling slaves, but trafficking "fugitives." The idea is out there for sure. I think Jorah was under some kind of spell by the Hightowers regardless. Was the Hightowers the reason for Jorah's demise? As Johnny Carson would say...I did not know that!!!
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Post by min on May 19, 2016 10:37:21 GMT
My question..your honor...is it possible that at some point Dany can cure Jorah of his stone man kiss? Whether it be blood or fire magic, or something entirely different. I wonder if we will not see Jorah emerge out of some "Texas A&M Bonfire" cured only to become one of the three heads of the dragon. That's fantastic! Jorah's grayscale looks suspiciously like dragon scale. So maybe we are being given a tidbit about greyscale and wild (fire) magic. Ghost grass could be the opposite; wild ice magic. It calls to mind the madness of Aerion Targaryen drinking a cup of wildfire thinking it would turn him into a dragon. The corollary in the book might be Tyrion who may yet develop grayscale. The fear of fire might be akin to hydrophobia an extreme fear of water as a symptom of rabies. I would guess that a population with a greater infusion of old valyrian dragon blood is more susceptible and that's why we don't see as much of it in Westeros. The question becomes whether Jorah, the Andal has Targ blood or old valyrian blood. Then there is the question of Targ birth 'deformities'; wings and scales and tails cured through mother's immunity or mother's milk? Is this why children like Shireen can sometimes survive when they develop grayscale? Dany may very well be able to cure Jorah through fire and blood. I will be very interested to see what happens! ETA: I'm guessing there is such a thing as wild or untamed magic; something that can be harnessed or bound or chained. Elenai magic, wight resurrection magic and greyscale may all be symptoms of wild magic released when the hinges were opened.
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Post by Maester Flagons on May 19, 2016 10:44:45 GMT
My question..your honor...is it possible that at some point Dany can cure Jorah of his stone man kiss? Whether it be blood or fire magic, or something entirely different. I wonder if we will not see Jorah emerge out of some "Texas A&M Bonfire" cured only to become one of the three heads of the dragon. Now that would be something. I know the books don't seem to matter in these kind of details, but don't the stone men fear fire? That's the impression I got from the fight on the barge with Tyrion and Young Griff, they used the torches to hold them off and throw them overboard. The one to attack Tyrion seemed braver the others and that's how he got hold of Tyrion. Not fire, but interesting. Extreme heat can hold off the disease, or so the Maesters say. Interestingly enough, Dany loves scalding hot baths and dreams of citrus trees. I don't know why the stone men would fear fire so much. It should be difficult to burn them with their stone like skin. Maybe they are just feral and mad.
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Post by Melifeather on May 19, 2016 11:57:42 GMT
Greyscale is a bizarre disease. The outer flesh turns to stone and traps the spirit inside the body. Why don't they starve to death, or turn stoney enough that they cannot move?
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Post by min on May 19, 2016 12:00:59 GMT
Greyscale is a bizarre disease. The outer flesh turns to stone and traps the spirit inside the body. Why don't they starve to death, or turn stoney enough that they cannot move? Hmmm... caves with stone pillars and carved faces.
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Post by Weasel Pie on May 19, 2016 18:39:42 GMT
Aha! This was driving me crazy. At first I was thinking Wun Wun is the Giant who dies at Winterfell but then I realized...
If the Umbers are indeed siding the the Bolton's against the Starks/Winterfell, then Sansa will have Smalljon Umber beheaded as a traitor, fulfilling the prophecy that she slays a Giant at Winterfell. (Umber sigil - Giant in Chains).
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Post by Melifeather on May 19, 2016 18:57:51 GMT
Aha! This was driving me crazy. At first I was thinking Wun Wun is the Giant who dies at Winterfell but then I realized... If the Umbers are indeed siding the the Bolton's against the Starks/Winterfell, then Sansa will have Smalljon Umber beheaded as a traitor, fulfilling the prophecy that she slays a Giant at Winterfell. (Umber sigil - Giant in Chains). If true, how did Theon and Jeyne get to Stannis?
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Post by min on May 19, 2016 19:00:23 GMT
Aha! This was driving me crazy. At first I was thinking Wun Wun is the Giant who dies at Winterfell but then I realized... If the Umbers are indeed siding the the Bolton's against the Starks/Winterfell, then Sansa will have Smalljon Umber beheaded as a traitor, fulfilling the prophecy that she slays a Giant at Winterfell. (Umber sigil - Giant in Chains). If true, how did Theon and Jeyne get to Stannis? A Dance with Dragons Tycho is sent to the Wall to negotiate payment of the debt of the Iron Throne with King Stannis Baratheon. He comes to Eastwatch-by-the-Sea with three ships and then travels to Castle Black with Queen Selyse. Jon Snow negotiates with him for the use of his ships for a voyage and a loan to purchase food for the winter while the Night's Watch provides him guides to reach Stannis, who has left Castle Black.[4] Tycho travels to Deepwood Motte, where he pays a ransom for the ironmen which Lady Sybelle Glover accepts for the king. He then goes through the snow toward Winterfell looking for Stannis. The king is not there, but Tycho finds Mors Umber outside the gates with some green boys. He takes Theon Greyjoy and Jeyne Poole, who were there after their escape from Winterfell. After three days they arrive at Stannis's camp in a crofters' village.[3] Westeros wiki
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