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Post by Ser Duncan on May 16, 2016 4:26:15 GMT
Cersei and Marg didn't get physical beatings, so I don't blame him. No they got mental abuse, sleep deprivation and starvation. Between the two, I'd rather take a hit. Physical abuse is easier to put past you as long as they don't do irreparable damage. Mental abuse stays with you. So even getting the milder of the two options, he's broken like a baby. Even Theon was still Theon for longer under Ramsay's abuses. It just irks me that they made the gay character weak.
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Post by Melifeather on May 16, 2016 4:36:19 GMT
Cersei and Marg didn't get physical beatings, so I don't blame him. No they got mental abuse, sleep deprivation and starvation. Between the two, I'd rather take a hit. Physical abuse is easier to put past you as long as they don't do irreparable damage. Mental abuse stays with you. So even getting the milder of the two options, he's broken like a baby. Even Theon was still Theon for longer under Ramsay's abuses. It just irks me that they made the gay character weak. I took it as he had both physical and mental abuse and starvation...but, yes, I agree. It seems Theon had it just as bad, but he finally did become brave. I thought Alfie Allen did a fabulous job talking to Asha. The emotion seemed so raw and real.
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Post by min on May 16, 2016 4:40:52 GMT
Cersei and Marg didn't get physical beatings, so I don't blame him. No they got mental abuse, sleep deprivation and starvation. Between the two, I'd rather take a hit. Physical abuse is easier to put past you as long as they don't do irreparable damage. Mental abuse stays with you. So even getting the milder of the two options, he's broken like a baby. Even Theon was still Theon for longer under Ramsay's abuses. It just irks me that they made the gay character weak. It's easier to have more sympathy for Theon because we see what is done to him. Perhaps they want to tone it down some. It looked to me like Loras did take a beating as well. And did you see that Septa. What a ghoul.
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Post by Maester Flagons on May 16, 2016 9:13:08 GMT
I thought Theon's scene with Yara was meh, not Theon himself.
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Post by alienarea on May 16, 2016 11:57:04 GMT
Not related to episode 4 but I had a stupid thought - what if R'Hollor is/was a dragon? I love stupid thoughts, they're the best kind. Can you expand on this? (R'Haegar ) Stream of thought: Melisandre has been to Ass'hai. From the spelling with 'h it looks like R'hollor is connected to Ass'hai. The shadowbinding (=glamour) seems to originate from Ass'hai as well. Sacrificing by burning = feeding a dragon. So maybe one of the Ass'hai shadowbinders became a dragonmaster and glamoured the dragon into a deity. Then the Ass'hei wrecked Valyria?
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Post by Weasel Pie on May 16, 2016 12:07:02 GMT
So maybe one of the Ass'hai shadowbinders became a dragonmaster and glamoured the dragon into a deity. Similar to warging? So... dragonning?
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Post by Melifeather on May 16, 2016 12:08:47 GMT
The show is obviously changing details, since we know neither Arya or Sansa was ever married to Ramsay, but they also said they plan to end up in the same place as the books. So what's our takeaway? How it's done may not be the same, but the outline should be there, right? Like Jon "lives", Brienne kills Stannis, Sansa brings the Vale to Winterfelll to help defeat Ramsay, the Tyrells and Lannisters plan to attack the Faith...
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 16, 2016 14:41:48 GMT
I took it as he had both physical and mental abuse and starvation...but, yes, I agree. It seems Theon had it just as bad, but he finally did become brave. I thought Alfie Allen did a fabulous job talking to Asha. The emotion seemed so raw and real. Yes Alfie Allen is an underrated actor. I've seen him in a couple of other things and each time he fills the characters out no matter how small the part. I didn't like the scene between Asha and him much, but he was very good in his portrayal. He wants acceptance and absolution, but he'll take the verbal beating from his sister all the same. I think I was just hoping for a bigger deal to be made of the returning Lord Greyjoy. Maybe next week. It's easier to have more sympathy for Theon because we see what is done to him. Perhaps they want to tone it down some. It looked to me like Loras did take a beating as well. And did you see that Septa. What a ghoul. That's true. If they at least explained what was done to Loras to put him in such a state, and it's more than what the women went through, then I'd be more inclined to sympathy for him. But without any details, he just looked like he was beaten in an effort to get a confession out of him, nothing else. Yes his cell is just as manky as theirs, but there's no indication of starvation, sleep deprivation, being lectured at and humiliated the way they show for Cersei and Marg.
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Post by freyfamilyreunion on May 16, 2016 14:44:20 GMT
Easily the best episode of the season, and since last season was such dreck, the best episode in about two years. The only thing I was lukewarm about (pun intended) was the final scene. So I guess despite GRRM's protestations, Dany is fireproof? The whole scene was a pale imitation of two of the best scenes of the series, Dany's survival of the funeral pyre, and Dany unleashing the dragons in Astapor. It just kind of highlighted the fact that Dany's arc really hasn't progressed that much.
But otherwise an excellent show. My personal highlight was the scene with Margaery and the High Septon. The cameral panning into the High Septon really made the scene quite menacing despite the fairly innocuous story he was telling. And Tyrion's scene with the slavers was great too. I really liked the looks Missendei was giving Grey Worm. Whoever directed this episode really did a good job.
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 16, 2016 15:00:22 GMT
The show is obviously changing details, since we know neither Arya or Sansa was ever married to Ramsay, but they also said they plan to end up in the same place as the books. So what's our takeaway? How it's done may not be the same, but the outline should be there, right? Like Jon "lives", Brienne kills Stannis, Sansa brings the Vale to Winterfelll to help defeat Ramsay, the Tyrells and Lannisters plan to attack the Faith... I'm not sure if it'll be Brienne to kill Stannis, but I think he and the last of the Baratheons are doomed. That Jon lives, I think is a given, however Martin does it will probably be different to the show. Littlefinger doesn't have any real reason to expend the forces he's got on a northern campaign, but it's possible. He did tell Sansa that once she and Harry the Heir are married, she can be declared as Sansa Stark and take claim of Winterfell in her husband's name, so maybe Harry will be inclined to take that back. As for the Faith Militant, well Cersei really opened up a can worms there, and like they said last night on the show, the Lannisters can't be seen as fighting against them, their hold on the throne is not it's strongest, so to attack the only group helping the poor could incite riot and revolt. If the Queen of Thrones is as astute as we think, she'll return to King's Landing and put a bug in the High Septon's ear about fighting the real danger, the Others, and divert them in that direction, rather than focusing on the many wrong doings of the royal household. And I suppose that Dany will get her khalesar. So when she finally makes it to Westeros, she'll be using a foreign army to take the IT, not something the people will love her for. The Golden Company is at the least Westerosi and bastard Targ born, so they would fit in better.
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 16, 2016 15:11:31 GMT
Stannis confirmed executed, I suppose but Davos still doesn't know how Shireen died. I'm glad that Davos' ignorance to the facts was confirmed. No way he would've been so supportive of Mel's crisis had he known. I wonder how he will treat Brienne now that she's told him she killed him. It was interesting that neither Davos nor Mel were at dinner with them. You'd think Davos would be there, since it was his doing what brought Jon back. Anyone else feel it was cheap of Mel to switch from Stannis to declaring Jon the PtwP in the space of a heartbeat?
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Post by Melifeather on May 16, 2016 15:13:28 GMT
Queen of Thrones is as astute as we think, she'll return to King's Landing and put a bug in the High Septon's ear about fighting the real danger, the Others, and divert them in that direction, rather than focusing on the many wrong doings of the royal household. I don't know if I agree with the quote above, but I agree with the rest of what you said.
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 16, 2016 15:32:28 GMT
Queen of Thrones is as astute as we think, she'll return to King's Landing and put a bug in the High Septon's ear about fighting the real danger, the Others, and divert them in that direction, rather than focusing on the many wrong doings of the royal household. I don't know if I agree with the quote above, but I agree with the rest of what you said. Who's left on the Small Council that could intervene with the High Septon? Both Kevan and Pycelle are gone, the other guy's off to Braavos. Is Tarlly on the council? If he is, then maybe he can come up with something to do about them. I think it's pretty clear that between the Faith Militant and the Sparrows, the faith of the 7 isn't going to be put down easily. So if you can't take them down, you have to divert their interests. Would Randyl Tarly be clever enough to find a cause for them to fight for? Or would he have to use force, which we know he's good at?
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Post by Melifeather on May 16, 2016 15:45:08 GMT
I don't know if I agree with the quote above, but I agree with the rest of what you said. Who's left on the Small Council that could intervene with the High Septon? Both Kevan and Pycelle are gone, the other guy's off to Braavos. Is Tarlly on the council? If he is, then maybe he can come up with something to do about them. I think it's pretty clear that between the Faith Militant and the Sparrows, the faith of the 7 isn't going to be put down easily. So if you can't take them down, you have to divert their interests. Would Randyl Tarly be clever enough to find a cause for them to fight for? Or would he have to use force, which we know he's good at? I don't think anyone in Kings Landing believes that the Others are a real threat yet. In the books I think GRRM will have to Faith Militant succeed, but fail against the Others. (I think the Others will make it all the way to Kings Landing) I think there's going to be some type of Citadel conspiracy going on and Bran's job is to destroy the Faith of the Seven. That is the major battle that's to come, but then Bran has to also find a way to destroy the Others afterward. He uses them as a tool, but it doesn't necessarily mean they're allies.
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Post by min on May 16, 2016 15:48:20 GMT
I think Brienne will end up at Winterfell at some point in the books. She is still looking for Arya and Sansa and there is now a rumor of Arya at the Wall. I don't know if Jon Snow will go to Winterfell or Ramsey will go to the Wall and Jon's body resides in a ice cell. I like the idea that Ramsey goes to the Wall; defeats the NW who won't join him and bends the weaker minded watchmen to his will. Then takes up residence at the Night Fort where, Selyse, Val and Shireen end up. I don't think Mel or Val will have anything to do with Jon's revival or that he will return a living man. Stannis dies in the battle for Winterfell and Theon is given to the weirwoods. At the end of DwD, Drogon and Dany were burning their way to Vaes Dothrak. In other words big departures from the book all around.
The question for me is are we being told anything or given any hints about the big questions. The points that must be the same if in fact D&D know or have been told where they shouldn't deviate. The ToJ has to fall into that category. That Jon comes back from the dead another. That there is a battle for Winterfell. That Davos finds Rickon at Skagos and brings him back. That Bran can connect with the past in ways that he is warned against. That Sansa will survive and reclaim Winterfell.
Are there any subtle hints about the truths?
Connections between red rahloo and the house of black and white: - funeral rights Jon is Ned's son not Arya's cousin - Arya and the Waif in the game of lies. Rahloo and the Great Other are/were men - Jon is a god, Dany a goddess
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