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Post by Melifeather on May 15, 2016 13:59:17 GMT
Why did Rhaegar crown Lyanna queen of love and beauty? Was it to honor her for her defense of Howland Reed? I have two different thoughts about this. The first is that he was sharing credit for the win. He wasn't sure if Lyanna was the KofLT, but he was acknowledging that she had something to do with it. OR It was Robert under the armor. I'd like for this second one to be true, but the circumstances for that to work are a bit tricky!
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Post by min on May 15, 2016 14:19:42 GMT
This comment from Westeros wiki:
Lyanna Stark loved the scent of blue winter roses.[2] The crown of the queen of love and beauty which Prince Rhaegar Targaryen gave to Lyanna at the Tourney at Harrenhal was made of the roses.[2] In one of Eddard Stark's dreams, the statue of Lyanna in the crypt under Winterfell has a garland of blue winter roses.[3] In the fever dream Eddard Stark has about the Tower of Joy, he dreams about a storm of rose petals blowing across a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death, whilst he hears Lyanna Stark screaming his name.[4]
Does the storm lord, Robert Baratheon have blue eyes? It doesn't say in the wiki. Was Lyanna screaming Ned's name as she was taken by force? Geesh the direwolf killed by an antler and the pups born with the dead? Both a foreshadowing and a shadow of the past?
Another romantic misdirection about Rhaegar and Robert?
Bael the Bard climbed the Wall, took the kingsroad, and entered Winterfell as a singer under the name of Sygerrik of Skagos. There he sang until midnight for the lord. Impressed by his skills as a singer, Lord Brandon Stark asked him what he wanted as a reward. Bael asked for the most beautiful flower blooming in Winterfell's gardens. As the blue winter roses were just blooming, Brandon agreed to offer him one. The following morning the single virgin daughter of the lord had disappeared. In her bed was the blue winter rose Bael had received from her father.[1]
Disappeared from Winterfell after agreeing to a marriage contract.
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Post by Melifeather on May 15, 2016 14:24:50 GMT
I think the crown of blue roses and the storm of blue rose petals are actually blood. Blue symbolizes death.
If you recall what happened to Myrcella, Darkstar meant to kill her but his blade ended up taking her ear off and cutting down the side of her face. A similar thing must have happened to Lyanna. If the cut was on or across her forehead it could look like a crown of blood circling, while the blow to her head could spray the droplets.
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Post by Weasel Pie on May 15, 2016 14:28:04 GMT
The following morning the single virgin daughter of the lord had disappeared. And was brought underground and placed in hiding. *cue the swiss-cheesed Planetos theory, all but confirmed by GRRM in the new Arianne chapter."
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Post by min on May 15, 2016 14:28:29 GMT
Why did Rhaegar crown Lyanna queen of love and beauty? Was it to honor her for her defense of Howland Reed? I have two different thoughts about this. The first is that he was sharing credit for the win. He wasn't sure if Lyanna was the KofLT, but he was acknowledging that she had something to do with it. OR It was Robert under the armor. I'd like for this second one to be true, but the circumstances for that to work are a bit tricky! I don't think it has to be Robert under the armor at the tourney for your theory to hold together. I think it was Rhaegar and his motivations for crowning Lyanna make more sense to me if he crowns her for honor instead of love. But it sets up the misdirection than he kidnapped her. I think you're right about Robert.
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Post by min on May 15, 2016 14:35:10 GMT
I think the crown of blue roses and the storm of blue rose petals are actually blood. Blue symbolizes death. If you recall what happened to Myrcella, Darkstar meant to kill her but his blade ended up taking her ear off and cutting down the side of her face. A similar thing must have happened to Lyanna. If the cut was on or across her forehead it could look like a crown of blood circling, while the blow to her head could spray the droplets. I can go with an alternate cause of death to childbirth since Ned says she had a 'fever'. A blood streaked sky could point to blood spatter from a blow. The crown of roses pointing to the event that started the whole business leading to death.
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Post by min on May 15, 2016 14:42:45 GMT
The following morning the single virgin daughter of the lord had disappeared. And was brought underground and placed in hiding. *cue the swiss-cheesed Planetos theory, all but confirmed by GRRM in the new Arianne chapter." Faces carved on pillars of stone. That is going back a ways. *cue faceless men.
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Post by Melifeather on May 15, 2016 14:44:49 GMT
I can go with an alternate cause of death to childbirth since Ned says she had a 'fever'. I'm not discounting the possibility that childbirth could have been involved, but lately I have been leaning towards her death being more like Drogo's with the fever and death resulting from a corrupted wound. I've been influenced by SomePig's tent/tower inversion analysis!
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Post by min on May 15, 2016 14:56:13 GMT
I can go with an alternate cause of death to childbirth since Ned says she had a 'fever'. I'm not discounting the possibility that childbirth could have been involved, but lately I have been leaning towards her death being more like Drogo's with the fever and death resulting from a corrupted wound. I've been influenced by SomePig's tent/tower inversion analysis! I know this is where you are going with it and I have read the tent inversion with some cognitive overload. I try to understand how things could work. I still don't have my head around all the extrapolations.
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Post by Melifeather on May 15, 2016 15:17:34 GMT
I'm not discounting the possibility that childbirth could have been involved, but lately I have been leaning towards her death being more like Drogo's with the fever and death resulting from a corrupted wound. I've been influenced by SomePig's tent/tower inversion analysis! I know this is where you are going with it and I have read the tent inversion with some cognitive overload. I try to understand how things could work. I still don't have my head around all the extrapolations. I also understand that a baby swap was involved to mirror Gilly's and Dalla's, and we're meant to understand Gilly's was of common, incestuous birth, and Dalla's has king's blood, so if Ashara was the mother of the baby with king's blood, then the other baby should be of common, incestuous birth. The pisswater prince fits the bill, however if we're talking inversions the opposite child survives. So, if the pisswater prince was smashed against the wall and the one with king's blood is Aegon (young Griff), then can we expect Dalla's child to be killed?
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Post by min on May 15, 2016 15:54:02 GMT
I know this is where you are going with it and I have read the tent inversion with some cognitive overload. I try to understand how things could work. I still don't have my head around all the extrapolations. I also understand that a baby swap was involved to mirror Gilly's and Dalla's, and we're meant to understand Gilly's was of common, incestuous birth, and Dalla's has king's blood, so if Ashara was the mother of the baby with king's blood, then the other baby should be of common, incestuous birth. The pisswater prince fits the bill, however if we're talking inversions the opposite child survives. So, if the pisswater prince was smashed against the wall and the one with king's blood is Aegon (young Griff), then can we expect Dalla's child to be killed? So Elia is the third sister!?!? My, my. Yes I'd go with that now that we know about the babes in the hall of faces. If Sam Jr. is a casualty; that would confirm the inversion theory. Can you explain the contention that Dany was holed up at Bear Island at some point?
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Post by Melifeather on May 15, 2016 16:16:47 GMT
So Elia is the third sister!?!? My, my. Yes I'd go with that now that we know about the babes in the hall of faces. If Sam Jr. is a casualty; that would confirm the inversion theory. I would agree Sam Jr, which is actually Dalla and Mance's child, is doomed. Can you explain the contention that Dany was holed up at Bear Island at some point? Not sure how Weasle Pie and Some Pig are explaining this, as it's their theory. My thoughts are that it's a false memory due to the opening of the hinge. Braavos is the mirrored reflection of Bear Island, so I am wondering if this has something to do with it.
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Post by Melifeather on May 15, 2016 16:19:06 GMT
So Elia is the third sister!?!? My, my. Yes I'd go with that now that we know about the babes in the hall of faces. If Sam Jr. is a casualty; that would confirm the inversion theory. There is an alternate thought to this though if we work this the other way. Monster at the Wall is killed, Dalla and Mance's child survives, which would mean that the baby swap in Kings Landing was planned but never happened. The real Aegon was killed, and the Young Griff is the Pisswater Prince.
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 15, 2016 17:26:56 GMT
When did Benjen ever know the love of a woman or hold his own babe in his arms then? Good question. Maester Aemon says something very similar, so I'm taking that to mean either someone in Benjen's immediate family had a wee one or Benjen himself was a naughty boy once at the Wall. Well, we already know of one Stark that would give Trouserless Bob a run for his money, so it's entirely possible that Benjen took after his oldest brother and shared the Stark seed where ever he could. My only reservation about this is that Benjen would've been quite young to be going around doing this. But then again, we have Dany being married off at the age of 13. And Jon isn't much older when he falls for Ygritte. I think he'd just turned 17. Maester Aemon is a wonder as well. I think he's referring to holding Aegon's kids in his arms, but then again, we know not all the maesters are as chaste as they pretend to be *cough*Walgrave*cough, cough*Walys*cough*.
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 15, 2016 17:40:34 GMT
Thanks, I thought it was early on, but I didn't realise it was that early. So basically what Benjen tells Jon is hypocritical at worst, or speaking from experience at best. The latter begs the question -- When did Benjen ever know the love of a woman or hold his own babe in his arms then? He could only go by what Ned told him if he confided in him. I'm not sure how well Benjen knew Ned in their younger years since Ned was fostered out. But they seemed to be in regular contact about the business at the Wall with Benjen as liason later. Something he observed about his brother? Something he regrets? Could he? I mean perhaps he observed things, not just being told what happened. I've always harboured the crackpot that Jon was born in Winterfell or the surrounding Winter Town. It would explain how Jon got their without being seen by anyone in the 7K with the exception of Borell seeing the Fisherman's Daughter. Sisterton to White Harbor is just a boat ride away, and the White Knife, and its tributaries, go up quite far north. It would be an easy journey by boat, then a short overland stretch to Winterfell. And a bag of silvers would probably buy her a new small boat that could make such a journey. Now I don't entirely know who the 'she' is in this scenario, but if it was Wylla and she gave birth to Ned's bastard there, but that child was replaced with Jon, it could be that Benjen was in disagreement to the cover up and left forthwith. Especially if the child was sent somewhere to be passed off as someone else's legitimate child. Ned has a lot of regrets at the end of his life, maybe it's those same regrets that caused Benjen to leave so soon after Ned returned to Winterfell.
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