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Post by Weasel Pie on May 15, 2016 17:50:16 GMT
He could only go by what Ned told him if he confided in him. I'm not sure how well Benjen knew Ned in their younger years since Ned was fostered out. But they seemed to be in regular contact about the business at the Wall with Benjen as liason later. Something he observed about his brother? Something he regrets? Could he? I mean perhaps he observed things, not just being told what happened. I've always harboured the crackpot that Jon was born in Winterfell or the surrounding Winter Town. It would explain how Jon got their without being seen by anyone in the 7K with the exception of Borell seeing the Fisherman's Daughter. Sisterton to White Harbor is just a boat ride away, and the White Knife, and its tributaries, go up quite far north. It would be an easy journey by boat, then a short overland stretch to Winterfell. And a bag of silvers would probably buy her a new small boat that could make such a journey. Now I don't entirely know who the 'she' is in this scenario, but if it was Wylla and she gave birth to Ned's bastard there, but that child was replaced with Jon, it could be that Benjen was in disagreement to the cover up and left forthwith. Especially if the child was sent somewhere to be passed off as someone else's legitimate child. Ned has a lot of regrets at the end of his life, maybe it's those same regrets that caused Benjen to leave so soon after Ned returned to Winterfell. I think it would be very cool if Jon was born in the North. It would make him exclusively "of the North" and certainly the least-travelled of his family.
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 15, 2016 17:54:31 GMT
So I'm left wondering if anything occurred between Rhaegar and Lyanna at all. I think the romanticism around it starts with crowning Lyanna queen of love and beauty. I think Rhaegar gave the crown to Lyanna because he thought she was the knight of the laughing tree. This is a tourney after all and what better way to honor her without revealing that a woman took a place in the competition. It would be consistent with his poet's soul. This. I've always thought the same thing. Rhaegar honouring Lyanna was his way of telling her he knew she was the KotLT. We have two very different takes on the Rhaegar Lyanna story. The victor of the rebellion and Ned's children all believe Lyanna was kidnapped and raped. The losers of the rebellion all believe Rhaegar died for the woman he loved, Lyanna. So which is the truth? Usually we say the victor write the histories, meaning they elaborate things that make them look good; while the story the losers tell always makes the winners look bad. Somewhere between the two lies the truth. Additionally, and as JNR always like to say, there is no textual evidence of Rhaegar being with Lyanna at all after the tourney of Harrenhal. All we have is hearsay. And I doubt Rhaegar would look for a surrogate to have the third child (head of the dragon) outside the court he already has in place. Ashara is there and available, why hunt down and take Lyanna? Just so you can have a child of Ice and Fire, when you're convinced the Prince that was Promised is the son you already have? Not too sensible to me.
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 15, 2016 17:59:22 GMT
The following morning the single virgin daughter of the lord had disappeared. And was brought underground and placed in hiding. *cue the swiss-cheesed Planetos theory, all but confirmed by GRRM in the new Arianne chapter." LOL! *cue Jon being born in or around Winterfell!
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Post by Weasel Pie on May 15, 2016 18:01:47 GMT
Just so you can have a child of Ice and Fire, when you're convinced the Prince that was Promised is the son you already have? And Bingo was his name. O. RLJ avoids this one like the plague.
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 15, 2016 18:15:05 GMT
Just so you can have a child of Ice and Fire, when you're convinced the Prince that was Promised is the son you already have? And Bingo was his name. O. RLJ avoids this one like the plague. Heh, I bet they do. It's the biggest contradiction of Rhaegar's motivation there is. It makes 0 sense to undermine your own son by trying to produce a son that would top him.
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Post by Maester Flagons on May 15, 2016 18:53:49 GMT
Good question. Maester Aemon says something very similar, so I'm taking that to mean either someone in Benjen's immediate family had a wee one or Benjen himself was a naughty boy once at the Wall. Well, we already know of one Stark that would give Trouserless Bob a run for his money, so it's entirely possible that Benjen took after his oldest brother and shared the Stark seed where ever he could. My only reservation about this is that Benjen would've been quite young to be going around doing this. But then again, we have Dany being married off at the age of 13. And Jon isn't much older when he falls for Ygritte. I think he'd just turned 17. Maester Aemon is a wonder as well. I think he's referring to holding Aegon's kids in his arms, but then again, we know not all the maesters are as chaste as they pretend to be *cough*Walgrave*cough, cough*Walys*cough*. I was told sometime back that GRRM said Benjen has no children or something like that. I don't think I've ever read that response for myself. Anyway, my crackpot that brought that up goes, Alys Karstark is the Daughter of Benjen. And who would have been helping Benjen rule the North while the war was going? Some she-wolves and other Ladies of the northern houses? A maester too?
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Post by Maester Flagons on May 15, 2016 18:55:45 GMT
This. I've always thought the same thing. Rhaegar honouring Lyanna was his way of telling her he knew she was the KotLT. Were she?
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Post by Melifeather on May 15, 2016 19:08:46 GMT
This. I've always thought the same thing. Rhaegar honouring Lyanna was his way of telling her he knew she was the KotLT. Were she? Either Rhaegar thought she was, or Robert was wearing Rhaegar's armor in the tourney. I'm going with Rhaegar only being interested in the karaoke contest.
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Post by Maester Flagons on May 15, 2016 19:26:17 GMT
Either Rhaegar thought she was, or Robert was wearing Rhaegar's armor in the tourney. I'm going with Rhaegar only being interested in the karaoke contest. Although Robert seems to ride very well, he is not a good jouster. Rhaegar might have thought she was the mystery knight. I don't know. Maybe it was just a random crowning like Sansa's rose.
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 15, 2016 20:09:40 GMT
This. I've always thought the same thing. Rhaegar honouring Lyanna was his way of telling her he knew she was the KotLT. Were she? Psht, who knows.
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 15, 2016 20:11:37 GMT
Either Rhaegar thought she was, or Robert was wearing Rhaegar's armor in the tourney. I'm going with Rhaegar only being interested in the karaoke contest.
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Post by Weasel Pie on May 21, 2016 9:22:40 GMT
Some Pig No Doubt , you're gonna LOVE this In the show, Gilly has that stupid line about "I thought the sea was called the sea because it was far as the eye could see. They sound the same but they're spelled different." (Then Sam vomits). I figured they have to be going somewhere with this, then I remembered the scene in Season 4 when Shireen visited Davos in the Dungeon on Dragonstone and offered to teach him to read. "This is Aegon, it sounds like Egg." And all that. Eggon. Of could we know this already, we've already used the pun. But why is D&D so concerned that we know the pronounciation? So concerned that they bring up reading lessons and homonymns... with Sam of Aegs & Bacon fame? R(Egg)ar. Born during the conflagration of the Tragedy at Summerhall. Some of them are born from eggs. Mother of dragons.
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Post by Weasel Pie on May 21, 2016 9:49:52 GMT
I call this one L'Eggo my R'Eggo. Dany laid an egg.
Book Confirmation - all from AGoT Chapter 68
This is a dragon waking... literally
Not enough? You want more?
And here's a spattering. Keep in mind, she just birthed an egg.
She doesn't ask for Rhaego. She asks for an egg.
Bring me... Egg.
GRRM even gave us an entire spinoff backstory to nail it home.
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Post by Weasel Pie on May 21, 2016 12:29:47 GMT
oh my god. If babies can be born from eggs.
Jon Snow - Ice Dragon. You know this is crackpot if I'm saying Jon is a Targ. But... "The Testimony of Mushroom claims that Vermax laid a clutch of eggs in the depths of the crypts of Winterfell."
Jon searching the crypts in his dreams. Someday, Ned will tell him about his mother.
Oh Hell.
And it's easier to smuggle an egg than a baby. You can smuggle a dragon's egg without even knowing it might contain a human.
"Ser Jorah Mormont tells Daenerys Targaryen that one of her dragon's eggs could buy a ship to take her back to the Free Cities."
Poor broke Jorah, who somehow found passage for himself and Lynesse to Lys. Heh.
I need to think.
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Post by Weasel Pie on May 21, 2016 12:59:24 GMT
"The Testimony of Mushroom claims that Vermax laid a clutch of eggs in the depths of the crypts of Winterfell." In Lord of the Rings, after Samwise Gamgee, Frodo, Pippin and Merry cross the Bamfulong, Farmer Maggot gives them a breakfast of bacon, eggs and mushrooms. George, you crafty old Turtle.
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