The plot is weak

Or as the Ironborn say, paying the iron price.

I see what you mean. Though I thought it was Ned that go melancholy when speaking of Arthur and it was Rhaegar's personality described as such*. I'm happy to be wrong! And there is definitely an aspect of 'let the gods decide' in the fight between Arthur and Ned.

*Is that a coincidence? Or does Arthur know what Rhaegar knows, that which causes both of them to be melancholy?




Absolutely. In this case however, is there is no hero. Ned only won because of the intervention of Howland Reed, in whatever form that took in the books. So either of them could've claimed the sword. Mind you, Howland's claim to it would only be by the grace of his commander/lord, Eddard Stark.

I think if Ashara (or better yet her father) gave the sword back to Ned, it would be a great honour. It's a gesture that says 'Thank you. You've earned this not by fighting, but by being a man above men to return it to us.'

What I mean is, regardless of how it was given, it would be claimed by the victor. Even if Ned doesn't think of it as his, it's still his spoil of war. See what I mean? He may think it's left in safe keeping, and may indeed've intended to give it to the next Dayne worthy of the name Sword of the Morning, but by his taking it, it means he's the receiver of loot (not in a bad sense) from a battle.

You meant this the other way around, right? "When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east." I interpret this as evidence of the open hinge, that Dorne is now Casterly Rock, and Casterly Rock is now "easterly".

I'm open to Arthur knowing what Rhaegar knows and if NAJ is in play; perhaps Arthur also knows his sister is pregnant; something that Ned does not yet know.  If there were broken promises to Ashara; that's also a matter of honor.  Neither completely at fault and bound by oaths and loyalty.  Something they both recognize and respect about each other.

Awesome observation about the sword by the way as I have read more than one argument that Dawn is Ice and had remained unconvinced, but seeing it this way makes me want to reconsider. Going back to the Long Night when "the sword" was forged...first I have to insert that I think the original Lightbringer was a comet so any sword forged after the meteor shower was likely made of fallen moon meteor...anyways...if it's a magical sword, who's to say it cannot change properties between light and dark?

All I meant is that Arthur is Rhaegar's closest friend, ally and confidente and knows the truth behind whatever transpired between Rhaegar and Lyanna or the reasons for taking her.  If there is some necromancy involved at the ToJ; he will know about that as well.  What's in the tower is the question. 

Is Lyanna in the tower or Starfall?  In the book, when Ned tells Arthur that he has been looking for him; Arthur tells him they have been away South.  So at Starfall; where Ned goes to meet Ashara who is waiting for him.  This would make sense if Lyanna was pregnant that she would have her lying in with Ashara and other women present.

Ned has a long memory lapse but Howland also tells him that he brings Lyanna blue roses every day.  Where does he get the flowers?   Apparently a rare flower grown in Winterfell's greenhouse.  Does Starfall also cultivate blue roses?

If NAJ is in play; I don't think Ned knows that Ashara had or will have a son or that Ashara knows that he can't keep his promise to her.  But I think Arthur may know all the circumstances. 

But like everyone who actually knows what's going on, they get killed.  It's still an open question for me.

Yes, I can be persuaded and it fits the inversion and Robert as kidnapper.  It would be crazy shocking.  Even the faceless men have the face of an infant on their wall.