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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on May 14, 2016 17:17:17 GMT
Also, I keep thinking of Dany's jumbled memories and Arya's experiences as the Ugly Little Girl - she gains the girl's memories from the face.
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Post by min on May 14, 2016 17:18:09 GMT
Melisandre mentions that no (blood) sacrifice is more precious that a child. The Faceless will accept a child as payment for the gift if that is the highest price the giftee can pay. Yeesh. Because of their innocence and their unsullied souls. And a full life not lived? Transferable?
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 14, 2016 18:02:54 GMT
Melisandre mentions that no (blood) sacrifice is more precious that a child. The Faceless will accept a child as payment for the gift if that is the highest price the giftee can pay. Yeesh. Because of their innocence and their unsullied souls. And a full life not lived? Transferable? Actually I think it's the opposite. Gilly says babies are full of life, that's why the Cold Gods go after them. She claims the wights can smell the strong life force her Monster gives off.
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 14, 2016 18:03:54 GMT
Also, I keep thinking of Dany's jumbled memories and Arya's experiences as the Ugly Little Girl - she gains the girl's memories from the face. Ah, but would a face grow with the child?
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Post by min on May 14, 2016 18:52:05 GMT
Also, I keep thinking of Dany's jumbled memories and Arya's experiences as the Ugly Little Girl - she gains the girl's memories from the face. Ah, but would a face grow with the child? That's a good question. I'm inclined to say no but Arya says the ugly little girl's face became supple with her blood. So would it shape itself to the underlying face as the child grows or there are plenty of children's faces of different ages in the temple. But if Aegon is to be convincing; he must also be convinced of who he is; so I think once the child develops memory the face could be safely removed especially if Mopatis has given it out that the boy is his foster son. That might explain his maudlin attitude and attachment to the boy.
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Post by min on May 14, 2016 19:03:00 GMT
Also, I keep thinking of Dany's jumbled memories and Arya's experiences as the Ugly Little Girl - she gains the girl's memories from the face. Ah, but would a face grow with the child? Yes full of life. So if you take the life, you get a full life of years in payment. Life pays for death; so how much life do you get from a newborn in contrast to say an 80 year old? One dragon egg, two, three? How much strength from a man in his prime or a stallion, a boar, a bear?... rambling
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Post by alienarea on May 19, 2016 11:27:27 GMT
Getting back to "The plot is weak". I liked the suggestion that Ned took Dawn to Winterfell because Ned wouldn't need go to Starfall. This is my main complain with R+L=J. Taking the books by the word Ned Stark and Howland Reed rode away from the Tower of Joy. And then rode into Starfall with a starving baby, Arthur Dayne's legendary sword and Lyanna's dead body and noone in Dorne remembers this? ) "Someone always tells."
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Post by min on May 19, 2016 12:29:54 GMT
Getting back to "The plot is weak". I liked the suggestion that Ned took Dawn to Winterfell because Ned wouldn't need go to Starfall. This is my main complain with R+L=J. Taking the books by the word Ned Stark and Howland Reed rode away from the Tower of Joy. And then rode into Starfall with a starving baby, Arthur Dayne's legendary sword and Lyanna's dead body and noone in Dorne remembers this? ) "Someone always tells." The problem is that I can't see Ned going overland on horseback. Westeros is supposed to be a continent. Look how long it took for Robert to get to Winterfell. I think he has to go by ship and Starfall would be the nearest port. Edric Dayne tells Arya the story of Wylla and Jon. He says that they were milk brothers but years apart. Then there is the story of the Fisherman's Daughter that points to Ned travelling by sea. It seems likely to me that he went to Starfall but it's a possibility that he didn't leave the sword there.
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 19, 2016 15:32:23 GMT
The problem is that I can't see Ned going overland on horseback. Westeros is supposed to be a continent. Look how long it took for Robert to get to Winterfell. I think he has to go by ship and Starfall would be the nearest port. Edric Dayne tells Arya the story of Wylla and Jon. He says that they were milk brothers but years apart. Then there is the story of the Fisherman's Daughter that points to Ned travelling by sea. It seems likely to me that he went to Starfall but it's a possibility that he didn't leave the sword there. But we know for sure he didn't travel by sea, at least for part of that journey. I wouldn't be surprised if he took a ship from Starfall to King's Landing, but the rest of his homeward travels were done overland. He visits with a few houses, can't remember which, but we know he brings Lady Barbery Lord Dustin's red stallion back. So what became of baby Jon in this scenario? Did he send him on to Winterfell directly on a different boat? Did he send Howland back with a wet nurse? As alienarea says, it's just beyond belief that no one knows how Jon travelled from the tiny seaport that is Starfall to Winterfell without anyone noticing or commenting on it. The only one to comment even slightly on the subject is Cersei. She asks Ned if Ashara killed herself due the child he stole from her, which could imply that Jon was known to've travelled from Starfall. But then again this is Cersei shooting her mouth off, trying to wound Ned, as she often does with Jaime and Tyrion.
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Post by min on May 19, 2016 15:49:07 GMT
The problem is that I can't see Ned going overland on horseback. Westeros is supposed to be a continent. Look how long it took for Robert to get to Winterfell. I think he has to go by ship and Starfall would be the nearest port. Edric Dayne tells Arya the story of Wylla and Jon. He says that they were milk brothers but years apart. Then there is the story of the Fisherman's Daughter that points to Ned travelling by sea. It seems likely to me that he went to Starfall but it's a possibility that he didn't leave the sword there. But we know for sure he didn't travel by sea, at least for part of that journey. I wouldn't be surprised if he took a ship from Starfall to King's Landing, but the rest of his homeward travels were done overland. He visits with a few houses, can't remember which, but we know he brings Lady Barbery Lord Dustin's red stallion back. So what became of baby Jon in this scenario? Did he send him on to Winterfell directly on a different boat? Did he send Howland back with a wet nurse? As alienarea says, it's just beyond belief that no one knows how Jon travelled from the tiny seaport that is Starfall to Winterfell without anyone noticing or commenting on it. The only one to comment even slightly on the subject is Cersei. She asks Ned if Ashara killed herself due the child he stole from her, which could imply that Jon was known to've travelled from Starfall. But then again this is Cersei shooting her mouth off, trying to wound Ned, as she often does with Jaime and Tyrion. You can transport a horse by ship and Barrowtown looks like it's a detour from the Sisters on the way to Winterfell. Yes there is nothing saying that something else happened; that someone saw something and we don't know about it. There's a 15 year gap.
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 19, 2016 16:07:56 GMT
You can transport a horse by ship and Barrowtown looks like it's a detour from the Sisters on the way to Winterfell. Yes there is nothing saying that something else happened; that someone saw something and we don't know about it. There's a 15 year gap. And the only saving grace I can find in all this, is that we don't know what happened to Howland Reed either. We've no idea how he got home. The last we hear of him is his finding Ned with Lyanna and he was not alone when 'they' found him. So there is wiggle room, but not a lot. We have at least 3 people that know for sure Ned was with Lyanna at her time of death, but we've no idea what became of them with the exception of Ned, and that Howland is back home now. Who and what happened to the minimal 3rd party present is a complete mystery.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on May 19, 2016 16:40:25 GMT
GRRM has said several times that Ned was indeed at Starfall at some point, so his presence there can be taken as a given even if the "when" cannot. He also has a SSM out there about Ned's journey home from Dorne/Starfall being a long one, many months - although really that could apply to land, ship, or both.
In AGOT, I don't remember which chapter but it's as he's preparing to leave KL, Ned thinks that he dislikes traveling by ship but for time purposes he probably should - and on the way back he can stop at Dragonstone to talk to Stannis about succession. When I saw that passage, it made me wonder if ol' Neddard had taken that route before....swinging by Dragonstone for a small errand on the way home to Winterfell.
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Post by Melifeather on May 19, 2016 16:59:05 GMT
If we go off the assumption that the wheel of time is now moving in reverse, then it seems Sam's journey to Oldtown is the reverse of somebody traveling with a woman, babe, and a maester, except the port of call would be the inversion of Oldtown. What is directly opposite? It may be Plankytown or the Weeping Town.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on May 19, 2016 19:08:04 GMT
If we go off the assumption that the wheel of time is now moving in reverse, then it seems Sam's journey to Oldtown is the reverse of somebody traveling with a woman, babe, and a maester, except the port of call would be the inversion of Oldtown. What is directly opposite? Bear Island. Weasel Pie
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 19, 2016 19:22:05 GMT
If we go off the assumption that the wheel of time is now moving in reverse, then it seems Sam's journey to Oldtown is the reverse of somebody traveling with a woman, babe, and a maester, except the port of call would be the inversion of Oldtown. What is directly opposite? It may be Plankytown or the Weeping Town. Wait isn't Sunspeare on the opposite side of Oldtown? We need a pinned map somewhere...
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