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Post by Ser Duncan on Jun 27, 2016 16:58:22 GMT
What was the SSM exactly regarding what D&D guessed for the mother? Didn't George just ask them who they thought the mother was? Did he confirm they were correct, or did he just smile? I think this is correct. The interview with D&D that I saw said George smiled and then gave them consent to present HBO with the idea of the series. So they at least believe they got it right. It does not, to my mind, say they actually did. I can easily see Martin wanting the wrong conclusion to be broadcast for his own means.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Jun 27, 2016 17:00:14 GMT
I can easily see Martin wanting the wrong conclusion to be broadcast for his own means. THIS. So much. Of course he'd be psyched that his fake-out was entirely believable. All the better to spring the surprise.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Jun 27, 2016 17:10:11 GMT
I'm standing by my belief that there is a reason GRRM has been so continually ambiguous about Jon's parentage. Because in the end it's not RLJ. But if D&D "guessed the mother correctly" did they presume the father is Rhaegar just like everyone else? Did they take the ToJ scene from the book as literal and not a fever dream? Why would GRRM warn it was a fever dream if it was literal? GRRM could easily have let them troll the story, just so he's got a big surprise for his ouevre. I agree. FWIW, I think either GRRM didn't tell them who the father was and they presumed like you said, OR there was a gentleman's agreement made between them that the show would go the RLJ route (which is better for TV) while George reserved the real story (which is better for the written word) for the books. George continues to be cagey about it, reminding people that the show and books are going different directions. D&D keep saying that the story will end up in the same place for the most part, but that the show won't necessarily spoil the books. Also, IIRC, D&D have never made any Inside the Episode commentary on any of the Lyanna stuff (aside from Bob's feather), which tells me that they don't want to get caught confirming/denying any book plot. Re: fanfic, look at what they did: 1) "Our prince wanted us here" 2) Large tower with lots of room, not a structure that can be pulled down by Ned and Howland 3) Bed of blood 4) TWO HANDMAIDENS - the "they" 5) "Send for a maester!" - indicating one was close by 6) "His name is Aegon/Aemon"... 7) "Robert will kill him, you know he will, you must protect him" 8) New Baby Jon presented to Ned I mean, the only thing missing from this list is the blue roses. Everything else is straight from the RLJ fan threads.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Jun 27, 2016 17:21:51 GMT
Excerpt from 2014 Rolling Stone interview of GRRM: On the parentage of Jon Snow: Benioff and Weiss later said that during that meeting you asked them who they think Jon Snow's mother was, which is one of the earliest — and seemingly one of the central — mysteries in A Song of Ice and Fire.I did ask that at one point, just to see how closely they'd read the text. Did they get it right?They answered correctly. Some readers, I think, would also ask who Jon Snow's father truly is, even though Jon was always claimed to be Ned Stark's bastard son.[Martin smiles] On this I shall not speak. I shall maintain my enigmatic silence, until I get to it in the books. Read more: www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/george-r-r-martin-outtakes-from-the-rolling-stone-interview-20140428#ixzz4CnjwXB4NSo in 2014, RLJ had already been THE theory everywhere for 10 years, and George knows this. I'm feeling good that he let the show roll with fanfic while he keeps the real reveal for himself.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Jun 27, 2016 17:23:51 GMT
And while we're at it...
Was the woman that was standing over Lyanna and handed the baby to Ned, Wylla?
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Post by Maester Flagons on Jun 27, 2016 17:26:54 GMT
Oh and I've watched the ToJ scene about 5 times now and I'm quite sure Lyanna names the baby AEMON Targaryen, not Aegon. So I don't know what the hell is going on anymore I haven't rewatched yet, but if this is the case, D&D are going straight-up no-bones fanfic. That little nugget is directly from the RLJ threads. Yep.
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Post by cooterian15 on Jun 27, 2016 17:37:04 GMT
The whole ToJ scene IMO does play catch-up with the fandom. We all know RLJ seems an easy guess in the books. And we all know GRRM is taking his sweet time confirming that. Why? I mean... who cares if RLJ? Why not confirm it unquestionably? What does it matter, it's not going to change anything. Jon will still have to deal with Winter and Dany will still have to conquer what's left of Westeros. I think one of the problems that GRRM has is how to keep all of the best secrets intact until the final page has been read. As the books turn the final corner and head in for the home stretch its going to be more difficult for him to keep things under wraps. So by making the parentage of Jon a mystery, I think he is trying to preserve not having too many things revealed for us readers. Otherwise, if too many of the blanks get filled in then the end story starts taking shape, and George has gone through great pains to keep this from happening. Just a thought. Of course, I didn't say anything about home long it would take to make that home stretch did I. Five years with TWoW released this year and ADoS in 2020-ish. 8 to 10 years if he can't get this done in 7 books. That's going to take a huge helping of "Job like patience" to wait for the book version of the story. I don't think I have 8 plus more years to stay engaged with the story. As Harry Callahan would say..."a man has to know his limitations".
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Post by Melifeather on Jun 27, 2016 17:39:09 GMT
Did they get it right?They answered correctly. Is there any wiggle room in GRRM's answer to mean that they answered the way he "hoped" instead of they guessed the mother right?
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Post by ac on Jun 27, 2016 17:45:07 GMT
Did they get it right?They answered correctly. Is there any wiggle room in GRRM's answer to mean that they answered the way he "hoped" instead of they guessed the mother right? That's exactly how I read that. In the sense that their answer showed that they had read the books closely (his supposed reason for asking the question).
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Post by wolfmaid7 on Jun 27, 2016 21:20:07 GMT
I'm standing by my belief that there is a reason GRRM has been so continually ambiguous about Jon's parentage. Because in the end it's not RLJ. But if D&D "guessed the mother correctly" did they presume the father is Rhaegar just like everyone else? Did they take the ToJ scene from the book as literal and not a fever dream? Why would GRRM warn it was a fever dream if it was literal? GRRM could easily have let them troll the story, just so he's got a big surprise for his ouevre. I agree. FWIW, I think either GRRM didn't tell them who the father was and they presumed like you said, OR there was a gentleman's agreement made between them that the show would go the RLJ route (which is better for TV) while George reserved the real story (which is better for the written word) for the books. George continues to be cagey about it, reminding people that the show and books are going different directions. D&D keep saying that the story will end up in the same place for the most part, but that the show won't necessarily spoil the books. Also, IIRC, D&D have never made any Inside the Episode commentary on any of the Lyanna stuff (aside from Bob's feather), which tells me that they don't want to get caught confirming/denying any book plot. Re: fanfic, look at what they did: 1) "Our prince wanted us here" 2) Large tower with lots of room, not a structure that can be pulled down by Ned and Howland 3) Bed of blood 4) TWO HANDMAIDENS - the "they" 5) "Send for a maester!" - indicating one was close by 6) "His name is Aegon/Aemon"... 7) "Robert will kill him, you know he will, you must protect him" 8) New Baby Jon presented to Ned I mean, the only thing missing from this list is the blue roses. Everything else is straight from the RLJ fan threads. This was my thought as well...Straight from the threads.Really his name is Aemon/Aegon.Come.Not only that but thematically Jon being raised from the dead and made KITN was another big give away they just threw popular theories on screen with no thought as to how they would mesh well thematically. When i heard Aemon/Aegon it pretty much confirmed that's what they did and if i were a rational thinking person who believes in Rlj even i would have a raise eyebrow the moment that hit the screen. Not to mention GRRM has posted on this,some of these stuff aren't spoilers.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Jun 27, 2016 23:01:31 GMT
When i heard Aemon/Aegon it pretty much confirmed that's what they did and if i were a rational thinking person who believes in Rlj even i would have a raise eyebrow the moment that hit the screen. Not to mention GRRM has posted on this,some of these stuff aren't spoilers. Well I can just about guarantee you that particular nugget of information will not be a book spoiler. Honestly, two Aemon Targaryens at the Wall? At the same time? Just too corny for even Martin to consider.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Jun 27, 2016 23:08:50 GMT
Do you guys ever read the MTV recaps? I look forward to it every week, they are hilarious. Full o'snark. Wildfire of the Vanities
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Post by Weasel Pie on Jun 27, 2016 23:41:00 GMT
Do you guys ever read the MTV recaps? I look forward to it every week, they are hilarious. Full o'snark. Wildfire of the VanitiesI didn't know these existed and now I need to read them all! ... This next section is so — to borrow a word from late pizzahead Loras Tyrell — profligately stupid and egregiously mood-breaking that I refuse to devote more than one sentence to it. Here is the sentence: Gilly and Sam and Aryan Sam (who has aged at least a year, don’t worry; time is a construct) go to the library, have a very low-key tiff with a bitchy librarian, and then Sam freaks out over how big the library is. Like, I enjoy books, too, so I understand that it can be fun to walk into a big library, but what right does this show have to celebrate knowledge as the highest virtue when its highest virtues are sibling-fucking and stabbing? Or is this show just gaslighting George R.R. Martin at this point? “OTHER people managed to write a bunch of books, George …”
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Post by jnr on Jun 28, 2016 0:56:01 GMT
I wouldn't say never, but again...I think this reveal is going to be a whopper that requires some detailed explanation. Perhaps I'm wrong and it can in fact be sensibly summed up in a single (non-encrypted) paragraph JNR-style for a Wowsa twist, but I don't think so. Ah, you still remember that post, do you? Truth be told, I never came close in that paragraph to summing up the whole theory. I provided the two names and the foundation of their connection, and sprinkled just a little bit more on top for flavor. That was it. And I think you're spot-on, re the complexity of a true revelation. GRRM knows the fandom will have a tremendous number of questions, and he'll need to find a way to answer most of them satisfactorily. And frankly, after such a tremendous setup for two decades now, I think he wants to do this mystery and solution full justice. So I think he'll provide a thorough explanation in TWOW or no revelation at all. I just hope not to read another LJ guilty post from him on Jan 1, 2017. "Another year has gone by, and Son of Kong is still on my back... sigh."
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Jun 28, 2016 1:23:34 GMT
Truth be told, I never came close in that paragraph to summing up the whole theory. I provided the two names and the foundation of their connection, and sprinkled just a little bit more on top for flavor. That was it. Heh! Well, I certainly hope that one day, one day we will get the reveal in all its glorious detail, and it will be spot on with that encrypted paragraph! And frankly, after such a tremendous setup for two decades now, I think he wants to do this mystery and solution full justice. So I think he'll provide a thorough explanation in TWOW or no revelation at all. Exactly. And I won't be surprised one iota if he leaves the show to handle the "no revelation at all" portion of that - in fact, last night's TOJ scene might actually be all we'll ever get on that note from the show, and I am more than fine with that. "Another year has gone by, and Son of Kong is still on my back... sigh." There will be a burning in New Mexico the size of the one in King's Landing if that happens. His Not a Blog has been extremely quiet and/or extremely succinct lately, posts mostly peddling books and other wares instead of treatises on Sad Puppies, so perhaps there is hope.
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