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Post by min on Jul 15, 2016 15:47:10 GMT
He's diguising himself as Tyroshi; but I think this is reference to the crown of blue roses and he does this under Septa Lamore's advice.
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Post by Melifeather on Jul 15, 2016 16:09:17 GMT
He's diguising himself as Tyroshi; but I think this is reference to the crown of blue roses and he does this under Septa Lamore's advice. That's very interesting and a logical analysis, but maybe he really is Tyroshi...I wonder if his mother isn't actually Lynesse, Jorah Mormont's wife? Didn't Some Pig have a theory about this too?
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Post by min on Jul 15, 2016 16:16:45 GMT
I haven't seen Some Pig's take on it. I'm of the mind that Ashara and Lyanna switched babes to keep them safe with Lyanna and possibly Ashara extracting those promises from Ned. Staging your death to disappear with a child who would be killed if his existence and whereabouts were know doesn't seem out of the question for me. As Septa Lamore tells fAegon; he isn't the only one who has to disguise himself. Cersei put her finger on that with Ned as well. He was silent of course; although he did tell her she should cross the sea and get as far away from Robert as possible as well.
It' ironic that Jon does the same thing with Mance and Gilly's babies.
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Post by Melifeather on Jul 15, 2016 16:24:00 GMT
I haven't seen Some Pig's take on it. I'm of the mind that Ashara and Lyanna switched babes to keep them safe with Lyanna and possibly Ashara extracting those promises from Ned. Staging your death to disappear with a child who would be killed if his existence and whereabouts were know doesn't seem out of the question for me. As Septa Lamore tells fAegon; he isn't the only one who has to disguise himself. Cersei put her finger on that with Ned as well. He was silent of course; although he did tell her she should cross the sea and get as far away from Robert as possible as well. So who do you think are the parents of each child, and who is Septa Lemore?
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Post by jnr on Jul 15, 2016 16:42:31 GMT
It's the fallacy of appeal to authority. Yep. This is exactly why I started Sable Hall. I was just so tired of ASOIAF discussion being all about what this perceived authority, or that perceived authority, thought. Deliberately got rid of the post count, so nobody would feel like a poster with 10K posts must be an authority. I wonder if Ran's curious statement has something to do with the WoIaF. Wasn't it revealed that some things in the book were deliberately wrong or misleading? Absolutely. Yandel, the supposed author, wasn't there and doesn't know what he's talking about. All he's doing is repeating what he's heard. But Ran seemed to be covering his ass, to me. Suppose RLJ proves false; now Ran can say "Oh, I knew it was false all along, but I had to act like I believed it, so as not to betray GRRM." Jon may not have Ned's name but he would still have his blood. Agreed, I don't think it matters a speck whether Jon has a Stark mother or father. He's still a son of Winterfell. Sorry, what? Stannis is going to burn Shireen? Stannis? How on earth does that make any sense, particularly after his instructions to Massey? After that happened on the show, D&D said how freaked out they were "when George told us about this." They didn't define "this" in specific terms. Ran and Linda were absolutely insistent that "this" must mean "Stannis burns Shireen in TWOW" and were both furious that that had been spoiled. I was just rolling my eyes; to me it's obvious that "this" might only mean Shireen is burned. But the premise that Stannis will do it, for any reason, and in particular the reason given on the show, is a total implosion of common sense. I will be reminding Ran of that... among other things... in due course, I'm sure.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Jul 15, 2016 17:03:14 GMT
I am not really stuck on my own ideas; I can be persuaded otherwise pretty easily with a better argument or mystery. The one thing I can't seem to let go is Jon's parentage. I'm still with Ned as Jon's sire and not just because everyone dismisses it. I've come up with so many different pairings on Jon's parentage over the years (almost 18 now) that in the end I've simply decided, for my own sanity, to say the canon is right until I'm told otherwise:- Jon is Ned's son. I'm inclined to believe fAegon isn't fake, but if he is then there should be a baby swap that mirrors Gilly's son and monster. Yes, me too, only I think the baby swap has to be linked with the real Aegon, not the fake. The baby could've been Ned and Ashara's child, the age at least would be closer if Ashara got pregnant at Harrenhal. With Ashara taking Aegon (Gilly) and the Pisswater Prince is their child, whose mother is technically dead (Val). Of course this would make Lemore a hidden Ashara, which I've never liked because it's too obvious. to me it's obvious that "this" might only mean Shireen is burned. But the premise that Stannis will do it, for any reason, and in particular the reason given on the show, is a total implosion of common sense. That's exactly how I read that comment. The 'this' is Shireen's burning, not that Stannis will do it. Or to take it further, Martin's plan for Shireen is that she will burn, but since he's not written the actual story yet, his plan may even change. Just like with Hodor, Martin's given them the origin of the word Hodor, and possibly how that came about, but what they did on the show can not happen in the books, seeing the cave they are in has no doors whatsoever.
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Post by min on Jul 15, 2016 17:04:33 GMT
I haven't seen Some Pig's take on it. I'm of the mind that Ashara and Lyanna switched babes to keep them safe with Lyanna and possibly Ashara extracting those promises from Ned. Staging your death to disappear with a child who would be killed if his existence and whereabouts were know doesn't seem out of the question for me. As Septa Lamore tells fAegon; he isn't the only one who has to disguise himself. Cersei put her finger on that with Ned as well. He was silent of course; although he did tell her she should cross the sea and get as far away from Robert as possible as well. So who do you think are the parents of each child, and who is Septa Lemore? I think Jon is Ned and Ashara's and fAegon is Lyanna's and Rhaegar's. It's ironic that Jon does the same thing with Mance and Gilly's babies. I think Septa Lemore is Ashara Dayne.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Jul 15, 2016 17:22:45 GMT
I think Jon is Ned and Ashara's and fAegon is Lyanna's and Rhaegar's. It's ironic that Jon does the same thing with Mance and Gilly's babies. I think Septa Lemore is Ashara Dayne. Yeah, see, this is what I mean about the theories because this would work too.
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Post by min on Jul 15, 2016 17:48:30 GMT
I think Jon is Ned and Ashara's and fAegon is Lyanna's and Rhaegar's. It's ironic that Jon does the same thing with Mance and Gilly's babies. I think Septa Lemore is Ashara Dayne. Yeah, see, this is what I mean about the theories because this would work too. LOL! addendum: sites.psu.edu/rclpassionblog2014/2014/04/07/hiding-in-plain-sight/
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Post by wolfmaid7 on Jul 15, 2016 19:32:03 GMT
No, I haven't been able to take either her or Ran very seriously as analysts ever since they both kept insisting that in the books, Stannis must burn Shireen. Kinda typical of the way they think; I bet they also believe Hodor dies the way he did on the show, and for the same reason. Is the review unintentionally funny, maybe? Yeah she hated it other than RLJ part with the exception as min pointed out of it being obvious...She saw no need for the inaudibles.
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Post by min on Jul 15, 2016 19:46:04 GMT
No, I haven't been able to take either her or Ran very seriously as analysts ever since they both kept insisting that in the books, Stannis must burn Shireen. Kinda typical of the way they think; I bet they also believe Hodor dies the way he did on the show, and for the same reason. Is the review unintentionally funny, maybe? Yeah she hated it other than RLJ part with the exception as min pointed out of it being obvious...She saw no need for the inaudibles. What are the inaudibles, Wolfmaid? I don't know what that means.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Jul 15, 2016 20:37:16 GMT
What are the inaudibles, Wolfmaid? I don't know what that means. I believe she's referring to the part where Lyanna says 'His name is...whispers inaudibly...Robert will kill him.' Linda saw no need for them to obscure what the baby's name was, and whatever else Lyanna tells Ned during that moment we can't hear what she's saying.
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Post by min on Jul 15, 2016 20:51:06 GMT
What are the inaudibles, Wolfmaid? I don't know what that means. I believe she's referring to the part where Lyanna says 'His name is...whispers inaudibly...Robert will kill him.' Linda saw no need for them to obscure what the baby's name was, and whatever else Lyanna tells Ned during that moment we can't hear what she's saying. OH. Hahahaha. I thought she meant that Linda swore under her breath or something but couldn't be bothered this time.
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Post by wolfmaid7 on Jul 15, 2016 21:02:45 GMT
What are the inaudibles, Wolfmaid? I don't know what that means. I believe she's referring to the part where Lyanna says 'His name is...whispers inaudibly...Robert will kill him.' Linda saw no need for them to obscure what the baby's name was, and whatever else Lyanna tells Ned during that moment we can't hear what she's saying. Hehehehe,yeah Duncan got it.Yeah the parts we did hear if you believe RLJ makes it pointless to conceal the other parts unless as i said earlier they are leaving room to give themselves an out it its not RLJ.
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Post by jnr on Jul 15, 2016 23:01:12 GMT
That's exactly how I read that comment. The 'this' is Shireen's burning, not that Stannis will do it. Or to take it further, Martin's plan for Shireen is that she will burn, but since he's not written the actual story yet, his plan may even change. Just like with Hodor, Martin's given them the origin of the word Hodor, and possibly how that came about, but what they did on the show can not happen in the books, seeing the cave they are in has no doors whatsoever. Couldn't agree more with this. Spot on. themselves an out it its not RLJ. Again agreed. But what is it, on the show? That seems a very interesting question. Not one I've answered, that's for sure.
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