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Post by min on Jan 5, 2017 13:48:54 GMT
Just going back to this quote again. Dany or the Dayne bloodline was once the blood of the dragon? Then she chained the dragons in the dark meaning that her ancestor gave up the dragons and power that went with them? Putting them underground from where they came in the first place? i.e the moon cracked and dragons poured forth.
Is it any coincidence that the Valyron gods were three dragons? Or that dragons look like volcanic rock of various colors and their skin smokes and cracks like lava? Waking dragons out of stone might means something other than hatching dragon eggs but the original creation of dragons from volcanic rock.
Is it possible that one or more of these dragon gods still exist? R'hllor for example chained underground; a slave to the great temple. Mel insists that he exists. Could this be the black dragon she sees amidst pillars of flame in her dream?
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Post by Melifeather on Jan 5, 2017 14:57:16 GMT
Is it any coincidence that the Valyron gods were three dragons? Dany's dragons are named after Valyrian gods, but I didn't take that to mean that there were only three gods. The rest of your observations are very compelling especially comparing the appearance of the dragons to volcanoes and lava flows, as well as her keeping them nearly underground.
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Post by min on Jan 5, 2017 15:37:46 GMT
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Post by min on Jan 5, 2017 15:47:32 GMT
Mount Kilimanjaro called Moon Mountain by Ptolemy:
First sightings by non-indigenous explorers From the UK National Archives First aerial photograph of Kibo taken by Walter Mittelholzer in 1929
The mountain may have been known to non-Africans since antiquity. Sailors' reports recorded by Ptolemy mention a "Moon Mountain" and a spring lake of the Nile, which may indicate Kilimanjaro; although available historical information does not allow differentiation among Mount Kenya, the mountains of Ethiopia, the Virunga Mountains, Kilimanjaro, and the Rwenzori Mountains. Before Ptolemy, Aeschylus and Herodotus referred to "Egypt nurtured by the snows" and a spring between two mountains, respectively. One of these mentions two tall mountains in the coastal regions with a valley with traces of fire in between. Martín Fernández de Enciso, a Spanish traveller to Mombasa who obtained information about the interior from native caravans, said in his Summa de Geografía (1519) that west of Mombasa "stands the Ethiopian Mount Olympus, which is exceedingly high, and beyond it are the Mountains of the Moon, in which are the sources of the Nile".[20][32]:1–5[33]:114
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Jan 5, 2017 18:28:21 GMT
Or that dragons look like volcanic rock of various colors and their skin smokes and cracks like lava? Waking dragons out of stone might means something other than hatching dragon eggs but the original creation of dragons from volcanic rock. Is it possible that one or more of these dragon gods still exist? I've got some core-of-the-earth imagery rolling around in my brain here....beyond the curtain of light at the end of the world, the mines of Valyria and the One God of many faces. Volcanoes themselves are dragon-like in general (covered some of that earlier in this thread), so imagine going deeper and deeper into an earth-like planet and finding a boiling seething lava mass at 5700°. Earth's inner core is for the most part a sleeping dragon at the center. and R'hllor being a fire god or even a vulcan god may bow to an even bigger "dragon" god far below - He who shall not be named - one that should never, ever be wakened or it would be the end of all life as we know it. Iono, spitballing. Need to flesh this out. But yeah, upthread I mentioned the possibility of Dany being the catalyst for the 'rebirth' of dragons - if you think about it in real-world geology, the earth's mantle/core is unstable and volcanic/seismic activity is basically the earth "burping" to release pressure that would otherwise cause catastrophic planet-killing instability. Planetos may need to burp and release some dragons. I need to think.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Jan 5, 2017 18:51:40 GMT
Random Wikipedia dumps. This timeline of volcanism on Earth is a list of major volcanic eruptions of approximately at least magnitude 6 on the Volcanic Explosivity Index (VEI) or equivalent sulfur dioxide emission around the Quaternary period. Quarternary Pd divided into Pleistocene (2.588MYA to 11.7KYA) and Holcene (11.7KYA to present) epochs. No firm data on large-scale eruptions prior to Holocene, but several major eruptions have occurred since. Obviously the Holocene epoch correlates to approximate the known period of history on Planetos. A Long Night in the Age of Heroes approx 8KYA that was result of a large-scale eruption (that possibly triggered a mini ice age within what is considered an interglacial period) would be consistent with presumed timing of known Quarternary eruptions - of particular interest, Grímsvötn, Northeastern Iceland 8230 BC and later Mount Mazuma (Crater Lake) in Oregon 5900 BC. Iceland has four volcanic zones: Reykjanes (Mid-Atlantic Ridge), West and North Volcanic Zones (RVZ, WVZ, NVZ) and the East Volcanic Zone (EVZ). The Mid-Iceland Belt (MIB) connects them across central Iceland. There are two intraplate belts too (Öræfajökull (ÖVB) and Snæfellsnes (SVB)). Iceland's East Volcanic Zone: the central volcanoes of Vonarskard and Hágöngur belong to the same volcanic system; this also applies to Bárðarbunga and Hamarinn, and Grímsvötn and Þórðarhyrna. Laki is part of a volcanic system, centering on the Grímsvötn volcano (Long NE-SW-trending fissure systems, including Laki, extend from the central volcano). The Eldgjá canyon and the Katla volcano form another volcanic system. Although the Eldgjá canyon and the Laki fissure are very near from each other, lava from the Katla and the Hekla volcanic systems result in transitional alkalic basalts and lava from the central volcanoes result in tholeiitic basalts. The central volcano of Bárðarbunga, the Veidivötn and Trollagigar fissures form one volcanic system, which extend about 100 km SW to near Torfajökull volcano and 50 km NE to near Askja volcano, respectively. The subglacial Loki-Fögrufjöll volcanic system located SW of Bárðarbunga volcano is also part of the Bárðarbunga volcanic system and contains two subglacial ridges extending from the largely subglacial Hamarinn central volcano (15 km southwest of Bárðarbunga); the Loki ridge trends to the NE and the Fögrufjöll ridge to the SW. Map of Icelandic zones. Note the basalt deposits. Yellowstone supercaldera erupted in earlier Quarternary/Pleistocene.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Jan 5, 2017 18:58:29 GMT
Grímsvötn (Icelandic pronunciation: [ˈkrimsvœʰtn̥];[2] vötn = "waters", singular: vatn) is a volcano in South-East Iceland. It is in the highlands of Iceland at the northwestern side of the Vatnajökull ice-cap. The caldera is at 64°25′N 17°20′W, at an elevation of 1,725 m (5,659 ft). Beneath the caldera is the magma chamber of the Grímsvötn volcano. Grímsvötn is a basaltic volcano which has the highest eruption frequency of all the volcanoes in Iceland and has a southwest-northeast-trending fissure system. Because most of the volcano lies underneath Vatnajökull, most of its eruptions have been subglacial and the interaction of magma and meltwater from the ice causes phreatomagmatic explosive activity. Subglacial volcanoes!! Touched on briefly earlier in thread - widespread destruction when these erupt. Anatomy of a subglacial volcano: Subglacial eruption: 1 water vapor cloud, 2 lake, 3 ice, 4 layers of lava and ash, 5 strata, 6 pillow lava, 7 magma conduit, 8 magma chamber, 9 dike Eruptions in the caldera regularly cause glacial outbursts known as jökulhlaup. [Coincidence that this word is reminiscent of "Joramun", who called giants from the earth?] Eruptions melt enough ice to fill the Grímsvötn caldera with water, and the pressure may be enough to suddenly lift the icecap, allowing huge quantities of water to escape rapidly. Consequently, the Grímsvötn caldera is monitored very carefully. When a large eruption occurred in 1996, geologists knew well in advance that a glacial burst was imminent. It did not occur until several weeks after the eruption finished, but monitoring[14] ensured that the Icelandic ring road (Hringvegur) was closed when the burst occurred. A section of road across the Skeiðará sandur was washed away in the ensuing flood, but no one was hurt.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Jan 5, 2017 22:04:54 GMT
Timing isn't consistent with ASOIAF, but this is interesting. All Wikipedia, again. Toba CatastropheThe Toba supereruption was a supervolcanic eruption that occurred about 75,000 years ago at the site of present-day Lake Toba (Sumatra, Indonesia). It is one of the Earth's largest known eruptions. The Toba catastrophe theory holds that this event caused a global volcanic winter of 6–10 years and possibly a 1,000-year-long cooling episode. By "cooling episode", some scientists believe "the eruption caused a "brief, dramatic cooling or 'volcanic winter'", which resulted in a drop of the global mean surface temperature by 3–5 °C and accelerated the transition from warm to cold temperatures of the last glacial cycle...computer simulations concluded that a maximum global cooling of approximately 15 °C occurred for three years after the eruption, and that this cooling would last for decades, devastating life Scientists agree that a supereruption of the scale at Toba must have led to very extensive ash-fall layers and injection of noxious gases into the atmosphere, with worldwide effects on climate and weather.. but there is no consensus that the eruption directly generated the 1,000-year cold period seen in Greenland or triggered the last glaciation." Genetic bottleneck theoryThe Toba eruption has been linked to a genetic bottleneck in human evolution about 50,000 years ago, which may have resulted from a severe reduction in the size of the total human population due to the effects of the eruption on the global climate. According to the genetic bottleneck theory, between 50,000 and 100,000 years ago, human populations sharply decreased to 3,000–10,000 surviving individuals. It is supported by genetic evidence suggesting that today's humans are descended from a very small population of between 1,000 and 10,000 breeding pairs that existed about 70,000 years ago. This is fascinating to me, because this lack of diversity in breeding pairs and resultant genetic bottlenecking can have all sorts of repercussions depending on how well the population recovers. Not only can there be interbreeding and further shrinking of the genetic pool, but there's the introduction of "trash genes", including deleterious mutations, recessive traits, and all kinds of other stuff that might fly in the face of "reproductive fit" and basic evolutionary theory. (Really, the same thing is happening today with the continued advances in medical science, if you think about it.) Anyway....what struck me here was the potential for this on Planetos...if populations are struggling due to the Long Night, the likelihood of various peoples mating with whoever, anyone they can find, is going to be high - and I wonder if this is where we might see the beginnings of the comingling of "undiluted" magical bloodlines like the skinchangers/Starks and perhaps even the proto-Valyrians/Valyrian predecessors.Proponents of the genetic bottleneck theory (including Robock) suggest that the Toba eruption resulted in a global ecological disaster, including destruction of vegetation along with severe drought in the tropical rainforest belt and in monsoonal regions. [Any TWOIAF scholars here that could point to passages of environment changes in Sothyros?] For example, a 10-year volcanic winter triggered by the eruption could have largely destroyed the food sources of humans and caused a severe reduction in population sizes. Τhese environmental changes may have generated population bottlenecks in many species, including hominids; this in turn may have accelerated differentiation from within the smaller human population. Therefore, the genetic differences among modern humans may reflect changes within the last 70,000 years, rather than gradual differentiation over hundreds of thousands of years. Other research has cast doubt on a link between Toba and a genetic bottleneck. For example, ancient stone tools in southern India were found above and below a thick layer of ash from the Toba eruption and were very similar across these layers, suggesting that the dust clouds from the eruption did not wipe out this local population. Additional archaeological evidence from Southern and Northern India also suggests a lack of evidence for effects of the eruption on local populations, leading the authors of the study to conclude, "many forms of life survived the supereruption, contrary to other research which has suggested significant animal extinctions and genetic bottlenecks". However, evidence from pollen analysis has suggested prolonged deforestation in South Asia, and some researchers have suggested that the Toba eruption may have forced humans to adopt new adaptive strategies, which may have permitted them to replace Neanderthals and "other archaic human species". his has been challenged by evidence for the presence of Neanderthals in Europe and Homo floresiensis in Southeastern Asia who survived the eruption by 50,000 and 60,000 years, respectively. OK, didn't wipe out everybody....Earth (and Planetos) is a big place so not surprised at all that factions may have survived. I think I talked about this possibility upthread regarding all the divergent populations in Essos with oral histories of the Long Night. However, what I think is important here is that w/r/t Toba, some of these divergent populations bottlenecked but others EVOLVED, and still others wandered off and became more isolated...but LIVED ON in their original form.The exact geographic distribution of human populations at the time of the eruption is not known, and surviving populations may have lived in Africa and subsequently migrated to other parts of the world. Analyses of mitochondrial DNA have estimated that the major migration from Africa occurred 60,000–70,000 years ago, consistent with dating of the Toba eruption to around 75,000 years ago. However, archeological finds in 2007 have suggested that a hominid population, probably modern Homo sapiens, survived in Jwalapuram, Southern India. Moreover, it has also been suggested that nearby hominid populations, such as Homo floresiensis on Flores, survived because they lived upwind of Toba.
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Post by Melifeather on Jul 22, 2017 16:43:28 GMT
Ima just gonna drop this here...
Was watching corny Journey to Center of the Earth movie with Brendan Frazer when he tells his nephew that, "remember, in the center of the earth polarity is reversed, so north is south and east is west." The opening of GOT on the HBO version does seem to imply that Westeros's planet is concave, with the astrolabe as a sort of manmade model of their world. Then there's Qaithe's words to Dany about, "To go north, you must journey south, to reach the west you must go east. To go forward you must go back and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow", which may be referring to how to navigate this inner-earth type world.
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