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Post by min on Aug 5, 2016 14:42:29 GMT
BR's cave is full of bones as well. They hear them crunching underfoot as they walk over them and then they see the stacked skulls in the walls.
After reading the quotes from aDwD; how likely do you think it is that Bran was advanced enough to come to Jon as the 3 eyed tree and open his third eye in the Crypts of Winterfell? Does it really matter if he tells Jon not to be afraid. Bran's "fear" were points brought up at Westeros; I think I addressed those. Isn't Bran now acting as Jon's guide when he tells him not be afraid. There's far more information about this event in Dance than there is in aCoK. Bran is on the cusp of the omega point where past, present and future are one. This is why Bran thought he dreamed Jon in the Crypts but its not the event itself. Bran clearly says that he wishes that all his siblings could fly so there is conscious intent at that point.
Jojen makes it clear that Bran's deep fears are about his dreams and not wanting to be a warg. Bran has been surveying the land from BR's cave from above. And then he shows JOn what that means. This is not the same as a wolf dream; it's a tree dream.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 5, 2016 14:44:13 GMT
Ser Duncan reminded me that whatever broke the wheel and changed the course happened after the Rebellion, but before the Starks got their direwolf pups, because white walkers and wights reappeared before Dany was in the House of the Undying. I have two guesses: 1) Illyrio scores the dragon eggs from Asshai. 2) Dany flowers - she becomes ready to be Mother of Dragons. I posted in my Ring of Fire thread that reptiles - in real world, now - have a "third eye" that regulates cyclical/circadian behaviors...such as telling them when it's time to wake from hibernation, migrate, and reproduce. If both things above happened around the same time, my guess is that the old powers did indeed awaken - right along with the dragons.
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Post by min on Aug 5, 2016 15:04:58 GMT
Latent Greenseer abilities:
la·tent ˈlātnt/ adjective adjective: latent
(of a quality or state) existing but not yet developed or manifest; hidden; concealed. "discovering her latent talent for diplomacy" synonyms: dormant, untapped, unused, undiscovered, hidden, concealed, underlying, invisible, unseen, undeveloped, unrealized, unfulfilled, potential "his latent skills" Biology (of a bud, resting stage, etc.) lying dormant or hidden until circumstances are suitable for development or manifestation. synonyms: dormant, untapped, unused, undiscovered, hidden, concealed, underlying, invisible, unseen, undeveloped, unrealized, unfulfilled, potential "his latent skills" (of a disease) in which the usual symptoms are not yet manifest. synonyms: dormant, untapped, unused, undiscovered, hidden, concealed, underlying, invisible, unseen, undeveloped, unrealized, unfulfilled, potential "his latent skills"
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 5, 2016 16:00:19 GMT
Her eyes opened to gaze up at a flat dead sky, black and bleak and starless Dany has unquestionable wargish/third eye powers, thanks for including that in this thread, because I believe it's proof that Dany might be the RL baby. Her relationship with her Silver is akin to the Starks relationships with their direwolves. And of course the horse being the connection to Lyanna. Similar to above is, of course, the similarity between Bran eating weirwood paste and Dany drinking shade of the evening - both events serve to open their third eyes even further. If Bran is unbound by time, he can appear to anyone in their present time; whether or not that is in his past or not. But that will already have occurred somewhere in the book as Ser Duncan points out. I can only think of one possibility and that's what happened at the ToJ. It may be the small change event that has the butterfly effect of the storm in the current story. The world is already falling into anarchy. Well stated min . I know these things get tricky to explain but I'll try. I think future Bran has already made all the changes to the past, and those can't be unchanged. An example would be Hodor. Bran can't go back and prevent Hodor from being Hodored - because Hodor needs to be Hodor. After Drogo's funeral pyre is when events began to occur in reverse order and inverted. If east is west and north is south, did the ward at the Wall remain intact or is it too inside out? Magic is no longer contained. It's born freely upon the cold wind north of the Wall raising the dead to wights, but it's not constricted to the north. Dragons hatched. That takes a bit of magic, and the accounts of the street magicians doing truly wondrous things, and how the acolytes say their spells for working with wildfire work better...so there are accounts that magic is everywhere. The Wall is expelling and the tunnels underground are exhaust exits. But if the Wall is expelling does that necessarily mean that the white walkers and wights cannot pass? Coldhands thinks he cannot pass, but maybe just not through the Black Gate? I think once the white walkers and wights get to the Wall, they're going to crawl up the side of the Wall and go over. Daenerys says she had "sensed the truth of it long ago", that the braziers weren't hot enough to hatch the dragons. Did Bloodraven whisper instructions in her dreams and into her subconscious? If so then the breaking of the wheel was deliberate and Bran is to over see it's dismantling. Bran the Unbuilder. I almost get this. How is that moment in time (Drogo's pyre) proven to be when the transmission gets put in reverse? I'm not sure it's exactly then though I can follow your train of thought. And of course I love the idea of the tunnels being exhaust ports The three cracks that Dany hears in Drogo's funeral pyre symbolize that three swords the Children forged to deal with the human invaders. Your theory about Planetos being a moon fits this so well, by the way! The three swords and how they correspond to the three cracks: tempered in water - hammer of waters - 1st crack, Dany has a rounded fragment of stone roll up to her foot heart of the lion - creation of white walkers - 2nd crack, she sees smoke "whirling" (blowing snow) around her Nissa Nissa - moon completely broken - 3rd crack - loud enough to break the world I'd copy the text here for comparison, but I'm at work and don't have access right now.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 5, 2016 16:41:35 GMT
la·tent ˈlātnt/ adjective adjective: latent (of a quality or state) existing but not yet developed or manifest; hidden; concealed. "discovering her latent talent for diplomacy" synonyms: dormant, untapped, unused, undiscovered, hidden, concealed, underlying, invisible, unseen, undeveloped, unrealized, unfulfilled, potential "his latent skills" Biology (of a bud, resting stage, etc.) lying dormant or hidden until circumstances are suitable for development or manifestation. synonyms: dormant, untapped, unused, undiscovered, hidden, concealed, underlying, invisible, unseen, undeveloped, unrealized, unfulfilled, potential "his latent skills" (of a disease) in which the usual symptoms are not yet manifest. synonyms: dormant, untapped, unused, undiscovered, hidden, concealed, underlying, invisible, unseen, undeveloped, unrealized, unfulfilled, potential "his latent skills" LOL and that is exactly why I used that word in the Heresy thread about the First Men that came to Westeros. My point being that the talent to skinchange was already there, what was lacking is the magic the Children had in using it to watch and communicate with them. They can't have felt the trees or even learned to speak with ravens if they didn't already possess the ability to do so. /derail But yes, I take your point too. Bran has the ability in him to be a greenseer, but just like the First Men, there needs to be a trigger in order for him to discover and use his gifts. In other words he can't be a tree in that dream if he hadn't already been taught how to use the trees. Which is what I've been trying to say over there from the start. Why would Bran at that point in time --he's had nothing more than dreams about the trees talking to him and doesn't know how a greenseer even operates -- appear as tree? Either an anvil on the head with the foreshadowing or this one of those subtle places that shows Bran time travelling.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 5, 2016 17:03:02 GMT
If Planetos is a moon (Nissa Nissa) then it didn't literally break into pieces, but rather the Children felt they broke the ecosystem and that this is how everything went so wrong. This would also make room for more natural cataclysmic events being attributed to the "breaking".
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 5, 2016 17:26:12 GMT
The three cracks that Dany hears in Drogo's funeral pyre symbolize that three swords the Children forged to deal with the human invaders. Your theory about Planetos being a moon fits this so well, by the way! The three swords and how they correspond to the three cracks: tempered in water - hammer of waters - 1st crack, Dany has a rounded fragment of stone roll up to her foot heart of the lion - creation of white walkers - 2nd crack, she sees smoke "whirling" (blowing snow) around her Nissa Nissa - moon completely broken - 3rd crack - loud enough to break the world I'd copy the text here for comparison, but I'm at work and don't have access right now. Does this suppose that the WW were created before the dragons? Or that the growth of fire in Planetos led to the creation of the WWs? Sorry I'm getting confuzzled.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 5, 2016 17:55:23 GMT
The three cracks that Dany hears in Drogo's funeral pyre symbolize that three swords the Children forged to deal with the human invaders. Your theory about Planetos being a moon fits this so well, by the way! The three swords and how they correspond to the three cracks: tempered in water - hammer of waters - 1st crack, Dany has a rounded fragment of stone roll up to her foot heart of the lion - creation of white walkers - 2nd crack, she sees smoke "whirling" (blowing snow) around her Nissa Nissa - moon completely broken - 3rd crack - loud enough to break the world I'd copy the text here for comparison, but I'm at work and don't have access right now. Does this suppose that the WW were created before the dragons? Or that the growth of fire in Planetos led to the creation of the WWs? Sorry I'm getting confuzzled. The eggs cracked open in the same order as the forging of the historical swords. The hammer of the waters came first. The white walkers second (Long Night), and then Nissa Nissa was broken in order to get rid of the white walkers, but it nearly killed everybody in the process. It says the third crack was so loud it sounded like the crack that broke the world. If Drogo's funeral pyre is looked at like a magic spell, or recipe if you'd rather, then it had all the elements of how Planetos got "broken" in the first place. The fact that dragons were birthed indicates to me that the rebirth cycle began at that moment in time.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 5, 2016 18:13:22 GMT
The eggs cracked open in the same order as the forging of the historical swords. The hammer of the waters came first. The white walkers second (Long Night), and then Nissa Nissa was broken in order to get rid of the white walkers, but it nearly killed everybody in the process. It says the third crack was so loud it sounded like the crack that broke the world. If Drogo's funeral pyre is looked at like a magic spell, or recipe if you'd rather, then it had all the elements of how Planetos got "broken" in the first place. The fact that dragons were birthed indicates to me that the rebirth cycle began at that moment in time. Gotcha. Interesting that the weapons of mass distruction should signal the rebirth cycle. But then again, the phoenix rises from it's own ashes to be born again. So yeah.
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tucu
Black Iron
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Post by tucu on Aug 5, 2016 18:53:20 GMT
BR's cave is full of bones as well. They hear them crunching underfoot as they walk over them and then they see the stacked skulls in the walls. After reading the quotes from aDwD; how likely do you think it is that Bran was advanced enough to come to Jon as the 3 eyed tree and open his third eye in the Crypts of Winterfell? Does it really matter if he tells Jon not to be afraid. Bran's "fear" were points brought up at Westeros; I think I addressed those. Isn't Bran now acting as Jon's guide when he tells him not be afraid. There's far more information about this event in Dance than there is in aCoK. Bran is on the cusp of the omega point where past, present and future are one. This is why Bran thought he dreamed Jon in the Crypts but its not the event itself. Bran clearly says that he wishes that all his siblings could fly so there is conscious intent at that point. Jojen makes it clear that Bran's deep fears are about his dreams and not wanting to be a warg. Bran has been surveying the land from BR's cave from above. And then he shows JOn what that means. This is not the same as a wolf dream; it's a tree dream. That is why I said that this is still ambiguous. There is a missing power to confirm any of the theories: -Can Bran use his dormant greenseer powers while sleeping in the crypts? -Can Bran use his future greenseer powers to change the past? -Can the power of the wolf pack give Bran access to the wierwoods even before going through the greenseer ritual?
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Post by min on Aug 5, 2016 19:09:19 GMT
BR's cave is full of bones as well. They hear them crunching underfoot as they walk over them and then they see the stacked skulls in the walls. After reading the quotes from aDwD; how likely do you think it is that Bran was advanced enough to come to Jon as the 3 eyed tree and open his third eye in the Crypts of Winterfell? Does it really matter if he tells Jon not to be afraid. Bran's "fear" were points brought up at Westeros; I think I addressed those. Isn't Bran now acting as Jon's guide when he tells him not be afraid. There's far more information about this event in Dance than there is in aCoK. Bran is on the cusp of the omega point where past, present and future are one. This is why Bran thought he dreamed Jon in the Crypts but its not the event itself. Bran clearly says that he wishes that all his siblings could fly so there is conscious intent at that point. Jojen makes it clear that Bran's deep fears are about his dreams and not wanting to be a warg. Bran has been surveying the land from BR's cave from above. And then he shows JOn what that means. This is not the same as a wolf dream; it's a tree dream. That is why I said that this is still ambiguous. There is a missing power to confirm any of the theories: -Can Bran use his dormant greenseer powers while sleeping in the crypts? -Can Bran use his future greenseer powers to change the past? -Can the power of the wolf pack give Bran access to the wierwoods even before going through the greenseer ritual? If you can demonstrate any of those things; I'll change my mind. LOL
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 5, 2016 19:17:10 GMT
Hang on I think I just found something that strengths the argument of futureBran going back and tapping Ghost and talking to Jon. BRB.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 5, 2016 19:26:32 GMT
Dreams became lessons, lessons became dreams, things happened all at once or not at all. Had he done that or only dreamed it?The wording in both of these passages is mirroring one another. The first is from Dance, which is Bran describing his experience of time in the cave. The second quote is from Clash, while Bran is in the crypts. In both cases Bran is unsure of what he's been doing in terms of reaching out and touching the past, present and possibly the future.
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tucu
Black Iron
Posts: 23
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Post by tucu on Aug 5, 2016 19:28:17 GMT
That is why I said that this is still ambiguous. There is a missing power to confirm any of the theories: -Can Bran use his dormant greenseer powers while sleeping in the crypts? -Can Bran use his future greenseer powers to change the past? -Can the power of the wolf pack give Bran access to the wierwoods even before going through the greenseer ritual? If you can demonstrate any of those things; I'll change my mind. LOL Well, that is my point. None of the explanations can be proven yet: the Old Gods work in mysterious ways
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Post by min on Aug 5, 2016 20:33:07 GMT
Dreams became lessons, lessons became dreams, things happened all at once or not at all. Had he done that or only dreamed it?The wording in both of these passages is mirroring one another. The first is from Dance, which is Bran describing his experience of time in the cave. The second quote is from Clash, while Bran is in the crypts. In both cases Bran is unsure of what he's been doing in terms of reaching out and touching the past, present and possibly the future. God! That's incredible. Think about that visually, You stand in front of two mirrors one each side; facing each other and you have a view of the past and future going off in both directions and when you hold up writing to a mirror; it's reversed. God that's clever! Jon - talks to bran; then Bran touches him Bran - touches Ghost; then talks to Jon
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