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Post by min on Aug 7, 2016 17:21:37 GMT
I thought I'd put this up for ongoing re-evaluation of her prophesy.
1) "When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur.
2) "When the seas go dry
3) and mountains blow in the wind like leaves.
4) When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child.
5) Then he will return, and not before."
........
1) time moves backwards in a vision. A great burning in the distance to seem like the rising sun. Possibly An inverted look at the sky through a lake or sea?
2) the Narrow Sea or the Dothraki Sea dry up: Seas go dry could be the water icing over
3) I came across a passage where someone is describing a battle and damn it, I can't find it. Essentially the fighters were blown in the wind like leaves. So I'm going to say that giants represent opposing armies in battle. Mountains blow in the wind like leaves... the Wall? Or the castles and great holds of Westeros crumbling, burning. King's Landing even.
4) Dany can become pregnant after all and bear another child.
5) This has something to do with her seeing Khal Drogo again. Perhaps another vision of the past. She must bear a living child before she dies. She can only reunite with the Khal in death
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Post by ac on Aug 7, 2016 19:08:46 GMT
I'm sure this has been discussed already but is there a specific reason why this isn't just the Planetos version of "when hell freezes over"?
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Post by min on Aug 7, 2016 19:42:05 GMT
I'm sure this has been discussed already but is there a specific reason why this isn't just the Planetos version of "when hell freezes over"? LOL! Meaning that what she's asking is impossible? You can't bring back the dead? Sorry, you won't have any more children?
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 7, 2016 19:44:21 GMT
Heh, that's about the size of it for me too ac . I don't even know why this is considered a prophecy. But then again I've not really looked at it closely enough to see if there is anything to it. Perhaps we can thrash it out here, and see if this even deserves to be considered important enough to analyse. And if so, what the blazes she's saying beyond, well, Never.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 7, 2016 20:57:08 GMT
On the surface the reader takes it as when hell freezes over, but I'm with min. This is a prophecy. It's very symbolic.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 7, 2016 21:03:01 GMT
Ok but why is it a prophecy? Sure, it is symbolic but I don't know that it is anything beyond a quite flowery way of saying Never. Not arguing with you guys, just trying to understand why it is considered a prophesy.
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Post by ac on Aug 7, 2016 22:33:28 GMT
Like Ser Duncan I am open to it being a prophecy or not. One thing for me is that it sounds almost too much like a prophecy. Maybe GRRM playing games! The other thing, and admittedly I am nowhere as deep into this as you guys at this point, is that I am yet to see any interpretation that is even close to convincing. Certain points; yes, but the whole thing; nothing. (No idea if that is the correct use of ";". I'm a maths grad haha).
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Post by min on Aug 7, 2016 23:10:31 GMT
A popular cinematic device to show a quick of passage of days; is to show consecutive sunrise/sunsets in time lapse fast forward or moving into the future. The mirror of that to show time moving backwards is to reverse the sunrise/sunset. You would see the sun rising in the west and setting in the east. This would be useful if you want to reveal information about the past in a dream or vision. Speaking of spinning objects; www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBuLoRzhWeIOh, oh! the Moon is broken: www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSs6eKmTCDY
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Post by ac on Aug 7, 2016 23:18:16 GMT
I can understand that. But if this is a prophecy it has to be about the future no?
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Post by min on Aug 7, 2016 23:30:45 GMT
Right, but what about the other stuff? Using visions is a great way to reveal information about the past. The Wall, the breaking of the arm of dorne, the long night. Whether or not the seas dried and water was captured in glaciers at the end of the world. Armies like giants blowing in the wind like leaves. Past or future, since visions are not necessarily just about the past. Dany is due for another set of visions when she passes beneath the shadow of the mother of mountains at Vaes Dothrak. Their high holy place. I'm expecting some information about the past or present. Quaithe might even show up afterwards with another set of befuddling instructions. LOL I think the last two are about the future. But whatever is meant by seeing Khal Drogo again could be something like a fever dream.
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Post by min on Aug 7, 2016 23:32:23 GMT
I can understand that. But if this is a prophecy it has to be about the future no? Maybe Bran will show her the past. In his coma dream; Vaes Dothrak and the mother of mountains is one of the places that he is shown. Wouldn't this make MMD's prophecy about something that will happen to Dany in the future? Are you still a skeptic? LOL My interpretatios may or may not be correct; they might be close. Sometimes you find stuff in the text that makes the meaning a little clearer. I don't think MMD was telling her this to spite her face or that GRRM would put in something that irrelevant. But he's good at disguising stuff. Keep peeling the onion.
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Post by ac on Aug 7, 2016 23:37:33 GMT
Right, but what about the other stuff? Using visions is a great way to reveal information about the past. The Wall, the breaking of the arm of dorne, the long night. Whether or not the seas dried and water was captured in glaciers at the end of the world. Armies like giants blowing in the wind like leaves. Past or future, since visions are not necessarily just about the past. Dany is due for another set of visions when she passes beneath the shadow of the mother of mountains at Vaes Dothrak. Their high holy place. I'm expecting some information about the past or present. Quaithe might even show up afterwards with another set of befuddling instructions. LOL I think the last two are about the future. But whatever is meant by seeing Khal Drogo again could be something like a fever dream. I tried to change that comment as I realised it wasn't very productive. You were too quick for me! This is why I shouldn't try and respond from my phone haha.
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Post by min on Aug 7, 2016 23:39:04 GMT
I tried to change that comment as I realised it wasn't very productive. You were too quick for me! This is why I shouldn't try and respond from my phone haha. LOL! Don't worry about it. I think it's good fun.
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Post by ac on Aug 7, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
I tried to change that comment as I realised it wasn't very productive. You were too quick for me! This is why I shouldn't try and respond from my phone haha. LOL! Don't worry about it. I think it's good fun. Cool, I'll give your comments more thought when I am home.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 8, 2016 0:41:40 GMT
I understand it, because for the last seven months I have been immersed in working through inversions, and I believe the wheel of time was broken and reversed during Drogo's funeral pyre. Much of the prophecy is the reversal of time. East is west, seas dry up, and mountains disappear. All three elements are inversions of nature.
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