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Post by Maester Flagons on Aug 8, 2016 1:44:18 GMT
To me, MMD's words ring as Quaithe's words do.
It's a lot of hype. Quaithe wants Dany to bide her time circling round Essos. A generic telling of the future. BUT, I think Dany can make things happens if George decides to follow through with it.
Seas go dry could be the water icing over. Mountains blow in the wind like leaves... the Wall? Or the castles and great holds of Westeros crumbling, burning. King's Landing even. Sun rises in the East... kind of the same feeling with something great burning in the distance to seem like the rising sun. Possibly An inverted look at the sky through a lake or sea?
Lastly, she must bear a living child before she dies. She can only reunite with the Khal in death.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 8, 2016 3:46:41 GMT
Ok so in an effort to see how MMD's conditions relate to Quaithe's recommendations I've split them by elements and came up with this:-
MMD's words in blue, Quaithe's words in red.
When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east,
To go north, you must journey south,
When the seas go dry
to reach the west you must go east.
and mountains blow in the wind like leaves.
To go forward you must go back
When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child.
and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.
Then he will return, and not before.
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Post by ac on Aug 8, 2016 4:08:52 GMT
BUT, I think Dany can make things happens if George decides to follow through with it. I think this is the biggest problem with all of our attempts at analysis. I feel like GRRM, especially early on, planted a huge number of seeds without really knowing which he would let grow.
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Post by min on Aug 8, 2016 9:06:11 GMT
I don't have any real sense of what Quaithe was saying except that is sounds a lot like mirroring or the foreward/backward reversal we've been discussing in the context of dreams or spells. A bit like backstitching. It's the last line that is the least ambiguous to me:
'and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow'. This is the shadow of the mother of mountains with it's womb of the world. This ties in with Dany's vision of a line of naked crones emerging from a lake, kneeling before Daenerys beneath the Mother of Mountains from the HoU. Which would be another way of representing time going back through the generations. So the previous line from Quaithe 'to go forward, you must go back' sounds like she must go back to Vaes Dothrak and she can't go forward until whatever happens there, happens.
So if I work backwards through Quaithe's instructions; I get directions on how to proceed to Westeros. The world being round; keep going east to end up in the west. Then to go North start from the South (Dorne or Starfall).
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 8, 2016 10:34:07 GMT
All four major migrations started somewhere in Essos. Dany is the mother or origin of dragons, and she's the beginning of the newest cycle.
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Post by min on Aug 26, 2016 16:08:16 GMT
I was reading Mad Monkey's OP at W on Puppets of Ice ad Fire and I really like the idea that it is MMD who first sings the song of ice and fire when she calls the ancient powers to attend and how the song reverberates through time forward and backward through different events. I'm not sure that the great wolf is Jon rather than Bran or that the man limned in flame isn't actually Euron.
Jon and Othor is another example of a man limned in flame, when Jon sets him on fire. The storm of rose petals a metaphor for war associated with Lyanna (Robert and Rhaegar) and then perhaps Aegon who dies his hair blue and ultimately the blue eyed lot.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 26, 2016 17:44:07 GMT
I was reading Mad Monkey's OP at W on Puppets of Ice ad Fire and I really like the idea that it is MMD who first sings the song of ice and fire when she calls the ancient powers to attend and how the song reverberates through time forward and backward through different events. I'm not sure that the great wolf is Jon rather than Bran or that the man limned in flame isn't actually Euron. Jon and Othor is another example of a man limned in flame, when Jon sets him on fire. The storm of rose petals a metaphor for war associated with Lyanna (Robert and Rhaegar) and then perhaps Aegon who dies his hair blue and ultimately the blue eyed lot. Gotta link?
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Post by min on Aug 26, 2016 18:34:17 GMT
W is down, server problems, looks like. I'll link when it's up.
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Post by min on Aug 26, 2016 19:51:22 GMT
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 27, 2016 1:03:40 GMT
It's very good and really highlights the wheel of time/repeated time loops.
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Post by min on Aug 27, 2016 17:44:05 GMT
It's very good and really highlights the wheel of time/repeated time loops. Yes, fascinating. Good to see people thinking outside of the box like that and referencing Some Pig and Weasel Pie for inspiration! Echoes and mirrors everywhere you look!
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Post by username3152 on Nov 29, 2016 0:33:20 GMT
"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," -
Could it possibly refer to a certain Son of a Southern House in Westeros whose sigil is a Sun and Spears? A son that makes a journey from Westeros to Essos?
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Post by Weasel Pie on Nov 29, 2016 0:42:58 GMT
"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," - Could it possibly refer to a certain Son of a Southern House in Westeros whose sigil is a Sun and Spears? A son that makes a journey from Westeros to Essos? I'm a fan of the "sun" representing a Martell "son", sure. Quentyn fits the bill, I agree. Also, welcome
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Post by Melifeather on Nov 29, 2016 0:58:52 GMT
"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," - Could it possibly refer to a certain Son of a Southern House in Westeros whose sigil is a Sun and Spears? A son that makes a journey from Westeros to Essos? I think it refers to the wheel of time and how reality has flipped. The Martells are now in the Lannister's spot on the wheel, whereas the Greyjoys have taken the place of the Targaryens and Blackfyres.
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Post by username3152 on Nov 29, 2016 1:12:47 GMT
I'm a fan of the "sun" representing a Martell "son", sure. Quentyn fits the bill, I agree. Also, welcome Thanks for the welcome! I think it refers to the wheel of time and how reality has flipped. The Martells are now in the Lannister's spot on the wheel, whereas the Greyjoys have taken the place of the Targaryens and Blackfyres. Mayhaps. I always viewed MMD's "prophecy" as more along the lines of a curse and as had been said earlier in this thread, just a way of saying, "When Hell freezes over". I always kept it at the back of my mind however, and when the Quentyn pov ended it popped back out at me as fitting the bill for the first line of the "prophecy/curse".
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