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Post by min on Aug 9, 2016 10:14:44 GMT
I thought it might be interesting to have some discussion about Euron's chapter. So here is the link for the full text. angrygotfan.com/2016/05/29/the-winds-of-winter-the-forsaken/I didn't think it could get any worse than Ramsey; but I was wrong. Euron's ship of horrors makes me want to grab bottled water, canned food and head for the basement. Euron is collecting priests from various religions because their holy blood is useful to him. Then he straps Aeron and the pregnant Falyse (minus her tongue) to the figurehead of the ship. Now what could he be up to? Does this sound like a sacrifice of a kind we saw with MMD burned on a pyre? She was holy blood as well, a godswife. What could he be calling up out of the deep? Didn't he try this before with another egg and wizard, eventually throwing both in the sea? Is this the result: The dreams were even worse the second time. He saw the longships of the Ironborn adrift and burning on a boiling blood-red sea. He saw his brother on the Iron Throne again, but Euron was no longer human. He seemed more squid than man, a monster fathered by a kraken of the deep, his face a mass of writhing tentacles. Beside him stood a shadow in woman’s form, long and tall and terrible, her hands alive with pale white fire. Dwarves capered for their amusement, male and female, naked and misshapen, locked in carnal embrace, biting and tearing at each other as Euron and his mate laughed and laughed and laughed… Did MMD stop the Stallion who Mounts the World or did Euron take his place. "As swift as the wind he rides, and behind him his khalasar covers the earth, men without number, with arakhs shining in their hands like blades of razor grass. Fierce as a storm this prince will be. His enemies will tremble before him, and their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief. The bells in his hair will sing his coming, and the milk men in the stone tents will fear his name." The old woman trembled and looked at Dany almost as if she were afraid. "The prince is riding, and he shall be the stallion who mounts the world." In the House of the Undying Daenerys sees a tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair standing beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him, which appears to be a vision of what might have been had Rhaego survived to be the stallion who mounts the world ***** When he laughed his face sloughed off and the priest saw that it was not Urri but Euron, the smiling eye hidden. He showed the world his blood eye now, dark and terrible. Clad head to heel in scale as dark as onyx, he sat upon a mound of blackened skulls as dwarfs capered round his feet and a forest burned behind him. “The bleeding star bespoke the end,” he said to Aeron. “These are the last days, when the world shall be broken and remade. A new god shall be born from the graves and charnel pits.” Then Euron lifted a great horn to his lips and blew, and dragons and krakens and sphinxes came at his command and bowed before him. “Kneel, brother,” the Crow’s Eye commanded. “I am your king, I am your god. Worship me, and I will raise you up to be my priest.”
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Post by min on Aug 9, 2016 17:57:22 GMT
Beside him stood a shadow in woman’s form, long and tall and terrible
I'm guessing Melisandre.
A Dance with Dragons:
“Lord Snow.” The voice was Melisandre’s. Surprise made him recoil from her. “Lady Melisandre.” He took a step backwards. ”I mistook you for someone else. At night all robes are grey. Yet suddenly hers were red. He did not understand how he could have taken her for Ygritte. She was taller, thinner, older, though the moonlight washed years from her face. Mist rose from her nostrils, and from pale hands naked to the night. “You will freeze your fingers off,” Jon warned.
“If that is the will of R’hllor. Night’s powers cannot touch one whose heart has been bathes in god’s holy fire.”
“Your heart does not concern me. Just your hands.”
A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre
She was stronger at the Wall, stronger even than in Asshai. Her every word and gesture more potent, and she could do things that she had never done before. Such shadows as I bring forth here will be terrible, and no creature of the dark will stand before them.
A Dance with Dragons – Jon III
Beneath the weeping Wall, Lady Melisandre raised her pale white hands. “We all must choose,” she proclaimed.
“We choose light or we choose darkness. We choose good or we choose evil. We choose the true god or the false.”
The red woman’s robes of deep-dyed scarlet swirled about her, and her coppery hair ad a halo round her face. Tall yellow flames danced from her fingertips like claws.
R’hllor was a jealous diety, ever hungry. So the new god devoured the corpse of the old, and cast gigantic shadows of Stannis and Melisandre upon the Wall, black against the ruddy red reflections on the ice.
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Post by min on Aug 10, 2016 11:09:14 GMT
I'm guessing that Euron is collecting wizards and priests for some purpose involving the use of holy blood. That's a new one since up until now it's been all about royal blood. So some great magic to transform himself into Azor Ahai or reforging the sword in other words. That would involve water, the heart of a lion and the heart of fire. Water he has in the person of Aeron Damphair. Dare I say Cersei's is the heart of the lion and Melisandre the heart of fire. If there is a Corpse Queen or Rock Wife involved, might that also be Cersei in some combination with Melisandre given Qyburn's ability to raise a corpse and Melisadre's shadow binding magic? Trnsferring one shade inito another body. Or something as simple as the kiss of fire.
Cersei dreamt that she was down in the black cells once again, only this time it was her chained to the wall in place of the singer. She was naked, and blood dripped from the tips of her breasts where the Imp had torn off her nipples with his teeth. "Please," she begged, "Please, not my children, do not harm my children." Tyrion only leered at her. He was naked too, covered with coarse hair that made him look more like a monkey than a man. "You shall see them crowned," he said, "and you shall see them die." Then he took her bleeding breast into his mouth and began to suck, and *pain sawed through her like a hot knife.
I have my doubts that the woman beside Euron is Dany. So far Euron has only said he will conquer Westeros and nothing about Essos. So Dany will take the fight to him at some point which would seem to make Storm's End the last hold out against Euron.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 10, 2016 11:55:34 GMT
I agree Euron wants these priests for some blood magic ritual, but I am leaning towards the woman standing next to him as being more symbolic of the corpse queen, or maybe a sacrificial moonmaid.
I've been trying to sort through the tongue removal symbolism, as well as his ship's name: Silence. Is it simply "silence" that he wants? King Aerys had Ser Illyn Paynes tongue removed because he didn't like that Ser Illyn said Tywin was the true ruler of the realm. But Euron's men all have their tongues removed. Words can harm as well as heal, and the tongue can be the strongest muscle in the body, because it can break a heart, harm a reputation, and spread lies.
Tongues can represent the voice of gods and demons. The devil is often depicted with a large protruding tongue. Snakes are known to have a forked, flicking tongue which can be interpreted as being sexual or take on an almost phallic symbolism.
I like the idea of Euron being the Stallion Who Mounts the World, because I believe the Greyjoys have usurped the Targaryens, and representing the Blackfyres on the wheel of time.
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Post by min on Aug 10, 2016 13:01:05 GMT
I agree Euron wants these priests for some blood magic ritual, but I am leaning towards the woman standing next to him as being more symbolic of the corpse queen, or maybe a sacrificial moonmaid. I've been trying to sort through the tongue removal symbolism, as well as his ship's name: Silence. Is it simply "silence" that he wants? King Aerys had Ser Illyn Paynes tongue removed because he didn't like that Ser Illyn said Tywin was the true ruler of the realm. But Euron's men all have their tongues removed. Words can harm as well as heal, and the tongue can be the strongest muscle in the body, because it can break a heart, harm a reputation, and spread lies. Tongues can represent the voice of gods and demons. The devil is often depicted with a large protruding tongue. Snakes are known to have a forked, flicking tongue which can be interpreted as being sexual or take on an almost phallic symbolism. I like the idea of Euron being the Stallion Who Mounts the World, because I believe the Greyjoys have usurped the Targaryens, and representing the Blackfyres on the wheel of time. I suspect that removing the tongues of wizards is defensive since we know that words are used in weaving magic. It renders them defenseless. Removing tongues is a way to ensure that secrets are kept. And I notice that when Bran and company cross the Wall, the world is silent.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 10, 2016 14:57:09 GMT
There are definite parallels and inversions between Euron and Bloodraven.
Bloodraven sits on a weirwood throne, the roots weaving through him and underground. Euron sits on a throne of black skulls, his tentacles reaching, seemingly everywhere
Bloodraven is an albino with white hair Euron is said to be handsome with black hair
Bloodraven has Children of the Forest as his attendants Euron has a motley crew of tongueless attendents
Bloodraven has one red eye. The other an empty socket Euron has one blue eye and one black eye that Theon says "shines with malice". He keeps it covered with a red patch. His personal arms have a red eye with a black pupil.
Bloodraven's love was Shiera Seastar that he took from his brother, Bittersteel Euron doesn't have just one woman, but he gave the dusky woman (tongue removed) to his brother, Victarion
Bloodraven came to Bran in his dream univited - technically a rape of the mind Euron "took" Aeron and Urri "from behind" - at least that is what his men with tongues say Euron told them...that he raped/sodomized them.
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Post by ac on Aug 10, 2016 15:52:53 GMT
I hadn't actually read any of the sample chapters but even before that I had been pondering on a Euron related crackpot. Now I'm drowning in confirmation bias ! Unfortunately it feels like it could be a long post and I don't have time to write it right now. Hopefully your discussions here will help me build on my hunch a bit too.
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Post by min on Aug 10, 2016 16:10:39 GMT
I hadn't actually read any of the sample chapters but even before that I had been pondering on a Euron related crackpot. Now I'm drowning in confirmation bias ! Unfortunately it feels like it could be a long post and I don't have time to write it right now. Hopefully your discussions here will help me build on my hunch a bit too. Sorry AC. Is this spoilery? Or do you have an OP you'd like to post. Because my head is swimming with stuff too. LOL.
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Post by ac on Aug 10, 2016 16:14:18 GMT
It's fine, I've read the sample chapter now I don't have a lot of time but I will try and get my thoughts together for a post today.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 10, 2016 16:31:54 GMT
Since my brain ponders inversions these days, what do you suppose the inversion to the missing tongues would be on Bloodraven's side? If Euron wants tongues removed, what would the benefit of tongues mean? And if Bloodraven is in possession of information that Euron would like suppressed, what could it be?
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Post by min on Aug 10, 2016 16:37:58 GMT
Since my brain ponders inversions these days, what do you suppose the inversion to the missing tongues would be on Bloodraven's side? If Euron wants tongues removed, what would the benefit of tongues mean? And if Bloodraven is in possession of information that Euron would like suppressed, what could it be? I'm not really sure.... silence as opposed to winds that whisper? I'm also crackpotting on the Horn of Joramun. Does it wake sleepers in the deep; under the sea? Krakens and kraken spawned in underwater caves that connect to the underwater cave system. Are these the ice spiders of Old Nan's tales? Perhaps Euron gets his hands on that horn as well. Since it sure looks similar to Dragonbinder. Eight feet long, black, banded in gold with runes of some kind. I still maintain that Melisandre didn't destroy it. So calling dragons, krakens and Sphyx? What do you suppose the sphynx could be?
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 10, 2016 17:07:11 GMT
You got quite a few parallels between Euron and Bloodraven, but I think the following ones might have a stronger parallel than you think. Bloodraven's love was Shiera Seastar that he took from his brother, Bittersteel Euron doesn't have just one woman, but he gave the dusky woman (tongue removed) to his brother, Victarion Bloodraven's love was Shiera Seastar that he took from his brother, Bittersteel Euron took Victarion's wife and got her pregnant. Victarion then strangled her for it. So direct parallel there with Bloodraven and Shiera, minus the strangling. Bloodraven came to Bran in his dream univited - technically a rape of the mind Euron "took" Aeron and Urri "from behind" - at least that is what his men with tongues say Euron told them...that he raped/sodomized them. Bloodraven came to Bran in his dream univited - technically a rape of the mind Euron is forcing Aeron to take Shade of the Evening, a drink made from a tree that is the exact opposite of a weirwood, and invading Aeron's dreams. Bloodraven has one red eye. The other an empty socket Euron has one blue eye and one black eye that Theon says "shines with malice". He keeps it covered with a red patch. His personal arms have a red eye with a black pupil. Bloodraven has one red eye. The other an empty socket. Euron now has one blue eye and one red eye that he no longer hides from the world under a patch.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 10, 2016 17:20:22 GMT
I'm guessing that Euron is collecting wizards and priests for some purpose involving the use of holy blood. That's a new one since up until now it's been all about royal blood. I remember old Heresies that talked about this. Most of came to the conclusion that the reason the blood of a king was special was due to that riddle that Varys set Tyrion. The answer to the riddle about whom would the sellsword obey (the priest, the king, or the rich man) according to Varys is Power resides where men believe it resides. No more and no less. If all believe someone to be special, then that person becomes special. Stannis is not a king except for those that believe he's the rightful heir. Mance doesn't have any important bloodlines, yet he's king beyond the Wall because the wildling choose him to be king. So if Euron believes the blood of these wizards and priests to be of importance, it is because society deems them to be special.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 10, 2016 17:21:48 GMT
Since my brain ponders inversions these days, what do you suppose the inversion to the missing tongues would be on Bloodraven's side? If Euron wants tongues removed, what would the benefit of tongues mean? And if Bloodraven is in possession of information that Euron would like suppressed, what could it be? I'm not really sure.... silence as opposed to winds that whisper? I'm also crackpotting on the Horn of Joramun. Does it wake sleepers in the deep; under the sea? Krakens and kraken spawned in underwater caves that connect to the underwater cave system. Are these the ice spiders of Old Nan's tales? Perhaps Euron gets his hands on that horn as well. Since it sure looks similar to Dragonbinder. Eight feet long, black, banded in gold with runes of some kind. I still maintain that Melisandre didn't destroy it. So calling dragons, krakens and Sphyx? What do you suppose the sphynx could be? Yes, we had speculated about the ice spiders being krakens, and Some Pig has a Marvel parallel for this. Not sure about the sphynx.
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Post by min on Aug 10, 2016 17:25:12 GMT
I'm guessing that Euron is collecting wizards and priests for some purpose involving the use of holy blood. That's a new one since up until now it's been all about royal blood. I remember old Heresies that talked about this. Most of came to the conclusion that the reason the blood of a king was special was due to that riddle that Varys set Tyrion. The answer to the riddle about whom would the sellsword obey (the priest, the king, or the rich man) according to Varys is Power resides where men believe it resides. No more and no less. If all believe someone to be special, then that person becomes special. Stannis is not a king except for those that believe he's the rightful heir. Mance doesn't have any important bloodlines, yet he's king beyond the Wall because the wildling choose him to be king. So if Euron believes the blood of these wizards and priests to be of importance, it is because society deems them to be special. I don't know about the Greyjoys and their connection to the third eye or why the kraken would be their sigil. Cersei has dragon blood and Melisandre's heart has been bathed in god's holy fire. So something about blood and fire?
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