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Post by min on Aug 10, 2016 17:27:43 GMT
I'm not really sure.... silence as opposed to winds that whisper? I'm also crackpotting on the Horn of Joramun. Does it wake sleepers in the deep; under the sea? Krakens and kraken spawned in underwater caves that connect to the underwater cave system. Are these the ice spiders of Old Nan's tales? Perhaps Euron gets his hands on that horn as well. Since it sure looks similar to Dragonbinder. Eight feet long, black, banded in gold with runes of some kind. I still maintain that Melisandre didn't destroy it. So calling dragons, krakens and Sphyx? What do you suppose the sphynx could be? Yes, we had speculated about the ice spiders being krakens, and Some Pig has a Marvel parallel for this. Not sure about the sphynx. There is also a Marvel character who is the devourer of worlds: The Sentience of the Universe let the mortal Galan gestate within it, and thus Galactus, the devourer of worlds, was conceived. Eventually, the "Cosmic Egg" underwent another "Big Bang," thus creating the current universe. Euron means to break the world like an egg and be reborn as Azor Ahai? This goes back to the breaking of the moon origin story.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 10, 2016 17:35:54 GMT
You got quite a few parallels between Euron and Bloodraven, but I think the following ones might have a stronger parallel than you think. Bloodraven's love was Shiera Seastar that he took from his brother, Bittersteel Euron doesn't have just one woman, but he gave the dusky woman (tongue removed) to his brother, Victarion Bloodraven's love was Shiera Seastar that he took from his brother, Bittersteel Euron took Victarion's wife and got her pregnant. Victarion then strangled her for it. So direct parallel there with Bloodraven and Shiera, minus the strangling. Yes, I agree this parallels as well, but I think the dusky woman also fits, and here're some thoughts about it that I detailed in The Reaver summary: Euron gave Victarion a dusky woman that he kept in his cabin on the Iron Victory. After battle he went to her and took her twice in quick succession. Afterward she had blood smeared across her breasts, thighs and belly, but it was his blood from the gash Serry gave him. The dusky woman washed his wound with boiled vinegar. “Dusky” is a euphemistic or poetic reference to black or somewhat dark-skinned people, but the blood smeared over her body surely mirrors Shiera Seastar, as there were rumors that she bathed in the blood of maidens to retain her beauty. Shiera was a renowned beauty and seductress, with long Targaryen silver-gold hair, a heart shaped face, and two mismatched eyes - one blue, the other green - which only seemed to enhance her beauty. She was also known to wear a heavy silver necklace with alternating blue sapphires and green emeralds to compliment her unusual eyes. The washing of the wound with vinegar is surely the sting Bittersteel felt when Shiera chose Bloodraven, but lets not forget that the two were once lovers. Victarion tells the dusky woman that Euron’s plan was good, that the Mander river was now open to raiding by the ironborn, but she cannot speak in return, because Euron has cut out her tongue. The tongue is a very special part of the body. It allows for communication, lovemaking, spitting, eating, and many other essential activities. It is perhaps the most personal part of the human body, more personal than even your genitals. If you dream about getting your tongue cut out it means that you have said too much to someone you know about something, or said something inappropriate. I think the fact that the dusky woman is missing her tongue is meant to symbolize that Shiera told Bittersteel something about Bloodraven, since Euron (Bloodraven) cut it out. Euron understands something from the past and is going to make sure he doesn’t repeat Bloodraven’s mistake in allowing Shiera to speak. The lost tongue also symbolizes the story of Serala, the Lace Serpent, and Lady Darklyn of Duskendale. The Blackwater Bay is an inlet of the Narrow Sea, separated from it by the Gullet, held between the arms of Crackclaw Point to the north and Massey’s Hook to the south, with the island of Dragonstone guarding the entrance to the bay. In this way Dragonstone is like the Shield Islands by the Mander. Aside from Kings’s Landing and Dragonstone, the largest port on the bay is Duskendale, which serves as a secondary port for King’s Landing when the main port is overwhelmed with traffic. Duskendale was formerly ruled by the Darklyns, but it is currently the seat of House Rykker. During the Andal invasion the Darklyn king at Duskendale forced Togarion Bar Emmon to abandon the northern Blackwater for Massey’s Hook. The Darklyns are now extinct due to the Defiance of Duskendale which took place during the reign of King Aerys II when, according to the smallfolk, Lord Denys Darklyn was convinced by his wife, Lady Serala of Myr, to take King Aerys II captive. During the imprisonment of the king, the master-at-arms of the Dun Fort, Ser Symon Hollard, slew Ser Gwayne Gaunt of the Kingsguard. The Hand of the King, Lord Tywin Lannister, assembled an army that could easily storm the town, but Lord Denys threatened to kill Aerys if Tywin attacked. Aerys was held prisoner for half a year with Tywin’s army waiting outside Duskendale. The situation was at a stalemate until Ser Barristan Selmy stole into the Dun Fort and rescued the king. Having lost his hostage, Lord Denys had no choice but to surrender. He bent the knee and begged for mercy, but the king demanded his head and those of all his family. Lady Serala, called the Lace Serpent for the poison of her words, was burned alive after her tongue and female parts were torn out which were blamed for enslaving her lord husband. Bloodraven came to Bran in his dream univited - technically a rape of the mind Euron "took" Aeron and Urri "from behind" - at least that is what his men with tongues say Euron told them...that he raped/sodomized them. Bloodraven came to Bran in his dream univited - technically a rape of the mind Euron is forcing Aeron to take Shade of the Evening, a drink made from a tree that is the exact opposite of a weirwood, and invading Aeron's dreams. Oh yeah! I had forgotten the parallel of the weirwood paste and the shade of the evening drink. Weirwood paste weds you to the trees...and shade of the evening is supposed to expand your mind, but maybe it weds you to Euron? Bloodraven has one red eye. The other an empty socket Euron has one blue eye and one black eye that Theon says "shines with malice". He keeps it covered with a red patch. His personal arms have a red eye with a black pupil. Bloodraven has one red eye. The other an empty socket. Euron now has one blue eye and one red eye that he no longer hides from the world under a patch. Maybe Theon's description was meant to convey how evil he thought he was rather than the actual color?
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 10, 2016 17:38:02 GMT
My reply to Ser Duncan got goofed up. I had posted this and it ended up inside the quote:
Bloodraven's love was Shiera Seastar that he took from his brother, Bittersteel Euron took Victarion's wife and got her pregnant. Victarion then strangled her for it. So direct parallel there with Bloodraven and Shiera, minus the strangling.
Yes, I agree this parallels as well, but I think the dusky woman also fits, and here're some thoughts about it that I detailed in The Reaver summary:
Euron gave Victarion a dusky woman that he kept in his cabin on the Iron Victory. After battle he went to her and took her twice in quick succession. Afterward she had blood smeared across her breasts, thighs and belly, but it was his blood from the gash Serry gave him. The dusky woman washed his wound with boiled vinegar.
“Dusky” is a euphemistic or poetic reference to black or somewhat dark-skinned people, but the blood smeared over her body surely mirrors Shiera Seastar, as there were rumors that she bathed in the blood of maidens to retain her beauty. Shiera was a renowned beauty and seductress, with long Targaryen silver-gold hair, a heart shaped face, and two mismatched eyes - one blue, the other green - which only seemed to enhance her beauty. She was also known to wear a heavy silver necklace with alternating blue sapphires and green emeralds to compliment her unusual eyes.
The washing of the wound with vinegar is surely the sting Bittersteel felt when Shiera chose Bloodraven, but lets not forget that the two were once lovers. Victarion tells the dusky woman that Euron’s plan was good, that the Mander river was now open to raiding by the ironborn, but she cannot speak in return, because Euron has cut out her tongue.
The tongue is a very special part of the body. It allows for communication, lovemaking, spitting, eating, and many other essential activities. It is perhaps the most personal part of the human body, more personal than even your genitals. If you dream about getting your tongue cut out it means that you have said too much to someone you know about something, or said something inappropriate. I think the fact that the dusky woman is missing her tongue is meant to symbolize that Shiera told Bittersteel something about Bloodraven, since Euron (Bloodraven) cut it out. Euron understands something from the past and is going to make sure he doesn’t repeat Bloodraven’s mistake in allowing Shiera to speak. The lost tongue also symbolizes the story of Serala, the Lace Serpent, and Lady Darklyn of Duskendale.
The Blackwater Bay is an inlet of the Narrow Sea, separated from it by the Gullet, held between the arms of Crackclaw Point to the north and Massey’s Hook to the south, with the island of Dragonstone guarding the entrance to the bay. In this way Dragonstone is like the Shield Islands by the Mander. Aside from Kings’s Landing and Dragonstone, the largest port on the bay is Duskendale, which serves as a secondary port for King’s Landing when the main port is overwhelmed with traffic.
Duskendale was formerly ruled by the Darklyns, but it is currently the seat of House Rykker. During the Andal invasion the Darklyn king at Duskendale forced Togarion Bar Emmon to abandon the northern Blackwater for Massey’s Hook. The Darklyns are now extinct due to the Defiance of Duskendale which took place during the reign of King Aerys II when, according to the smallfolk, Lord Denys Darklyn was convinced by his wife, Lady Serala of Myr, to take King Aerys II captive.
During the imprisonment of the king, the master-at-arms of the Dun Fort, Ser Symon Hollard, slew Ser Gwayne Gaunt of the Kingsguard. The Hand of the King, Lord Tywin Lannister, assembled an army that could easily storm the town, but Lord Denys threatened to kill Aerys if Tywin attacked. Aerys was held prisoner for half a year with Tywin’s army waiting outside Duskendale.
The situation was at a stalemate until Ser Barristan Selmy stole into the Dun Fort and rescued the king. Having lost his hostage, Lord Denys had no choice but to surrender. He bent the knee and begged for mercy, but the king demanded his head and those of all his family. Lady Serala, called the Lace Serpent for the poison of her words, was burned alive after her tongue and female parts were torn out which were blamed for enslaving her lord husband.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 10, 2016 17:42:36 GMT
I don't know about the Greyjoys and their connection to the third eye or why the kraken would be their sigil. Cersei has dragon blood and Melisandre's heart has been bathed in god's holy fire. So something about blood and fire? Sorry? How does Cersei have dragon blood? I like the association you're making here, but I don't think it's fire and blood that Euron is going for, more like just blood and sorcery.
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Post by min on Aug 10, 2016 17:44:21 GMT
I don't know about the Greyjoys and their connection to the third eye or why the kraken would be their sigil. Cersei has dragon blood and Melisandre's heart has been bathed in god's holy fire. So something about blood and fire? Sorry? How does Cersei have dragon blood? I like the association you're making here, but I don't think it's fire and blood that Euron is going for, more like just blood and sorcery. I'm under the impression that Aerys is the father rather than Tywin.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 10, 2016 17:49:30 GMT
Maybe Theon's description was meant to convey how evil he thought he was rather than the actual color? Yeah, I think so. Theon doesn't know his uncle well, since he's been in Starkland most of his life, but if the impression he got as a child is his uncle Euron had a hidden side that was black and shining with malice, I think we take that to be a true recollection of the man. Including the fact of that eye being black at the time. Aeron says in this new chapter that the eye is no longer black, but red and shining, and Euron's changed his sigil. Seems to be Euron no longer needs the red eye on his sigil because he's finally achieved making his own eye red.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 10, 2016 17:51:42 GMT
I'm under the impression that Aerys is the father rather than Tywin. Oh I see... Ok then, yes IF Aerys is Cersei and Jaime's father, then sure he's working to get the Targ powers on his side. What was it Marwin said about Valyrian sorcery? It's all rooted in blood and fire?
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Post by min on Aug 10, 2016 17:54:47 GMT
It's all rooted in blood and fire? That's what he said.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 10, 2016 18:00:35 GMT
I take your point about the Dusky woman Mel. Victarion believes she was given to him as a pity prize and as a spy. Although how she's supposed to relay what she's spying on is a bit murky. Regardless, Victarion uses her. And it's almost a matter of course, the background character in the story will end up having played a larger role than the reader first believed.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 10, 2016 18:03:27 GMT
I take your point about the Dusky woman Mel. Victarion believes she was given to him as a pity prize and as a spy. Although how she's supposed to relay what she's spying on is a bit murky. Regardless, Victarion uses her. And it's almost a matter of course, the background character in the story will end up having played a larger role than the reader first believed. Sorry...I'm adding and catching snippets between work. If I didn't say so before, I suspect Lady Sarela that married into the Darklyns was actually Shiera Seastar after Bloodraven left for the Wall.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 10, 2016 18:56:49 GMT
I hadn't actually read any of the sample chapters but even before that I had been pondering on a Euron related crackpot. Now I'm drowning in confirmation bias ! Unfortunately it feels like it could be a long post and I don't have time to write it right now. Hopefully your discussions here will help me build on my hunch a bit too. Please do tell us your Euron crackpot. Maybe just jot down your points so that your write up doesn't have to be so long?
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 10, 2016 19:02:15 GMT
I take your point about the Dusky woman Mel. Victarion believes she was given to him as a pity prize and as a spy. Although how she's supposed to relay what she's spying on is a bit murky. Regardless, Victarion uses her. And it's almost a matter of course, the background character in the story will end up having played a larger role than the reader first believed. Sorry...I'm adding and catching snippets between work. If I didn't say so before, I suspect Lady Sarela that married into the Darklyns was actually Shiera Seastar after Bloodraven left for the Wall. No I got your point, and how it is a suspicion that both Shiera and the Dusky woman can have more backstory and importance the current story. What I'd like to do is relate more to the chapter and what's happening to Aeron and Euron at the moment. Both the Dusky woman and Falyse have their tongues out. There has to be a deeper reason why Euron does this to everyone he meets, but yet has not done this to Aeron.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 10, 2016 19:12:39 GMT
Sorry...I'm adding and catching snippets between work. If I didn't say so before, I suspect Lady Sarela that married into the Darklyns was actually Shiera Seastar after Bloodraven left for the Wall. No I got your point, and how it is a suspicion that both Shiera and the Dusky woman can have more backstory and importance the current story. What I'd like to do is relate more to the chapter and what's happening to Aeron and Euron at the moment. Both the Dusky woman and Falyse have their tongues out. There has to be a deeper reason why Euron does this to everyone he meets, but yet has not done this to Aeron. Yes, I agree the "tongues" are mysterious. I had said as much above. And by examining how Bloodraven is the opposite may shed light on this purpose. So the opposite of "no tongues" must be something to do with "many tongues"....or what?
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Post by ac on Aug 10, 2016 20:33:53 GMT
Both the Dusky woman and Falyse have their tongues out. There has to be a deeper reason why Euron does this to everyone he meets Like having a secret sea dragon he doesn't want them telling anyone about?
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 10, 2016 20:42:03 GMT
I have a thought about the "many tongues" that Bloodraven would have. I think this symbolizes the influence a greenseer has, whispering words and ideas into people's subconscious minds while dreaming. This is also likely what "flying" means.
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