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Post by ac on Aug 10, 2016 23:33:02 GMT
Hahaha, my crackpot is unveiling itself slowly!
So if Euron is the modern day drowned god is Bloodraven / Bran the new storm god?
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 10, 2016 23:35:12 GMT
What are people's thoughts on Cersei and Euron ending up together? I'll answer this one first because it relates to what I want to mention to Min. I don't think the tall, shadowy is Cersei. I think she's Lady Stoneheart. She is the perfect rock wife for him. The Crow's Eye already has a fertile salt wife to give him sons. What he needs is ruthless, unstoppable force for a rock wife. LSH is completely driven by revenge, and she's already magically been brought back to life, so there is also the angle of satisfying his fascination with all the priests and wizards. So one army with a female head and one with a male while the lion's body has no head. This reminds me of Trios and Penney's story of the dwarf juggler who was killed; his body cut into 3 parts and placed in each mouth but the head was missing. Good grief Tyrion? His two headed dream of slaughtering with one head and weeping with the other. Or does the horn of Joramun stay at the Wall until Jon can use it? It certainly does remind me of the statue of Trios with the dwarf parts in the three heads. I don't think it will be Tyrion though, because that dream show us that he's got too much compassion still. But if Euron's rock wife is Lady Stoneheart, I can easily see her chopping up folk and/or skewering them on the blades of the Iron Throne. Didn't Catelyn start to loose faith in the 7 just before she died? Or did swear by them in order to curse the Freys and Boltons? The show is messing with my memory here, sorry.
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Post by min on Aug 10, 2016 23:38:19 GMT
I'll answer this one first because it relates to what I want to mention to Min. I don't think the tall, shadowy is Cersei. I think she's Lady Stoneheart. She is the perfect rock wife for him. The Crow's Eye already has a fertile salt wife to give him sons. What he needs is ruthless, unstoppable force for a rock wife. LSH is completely driven by revenge, and she's already magically been brought back to life, so there is also the angle of satisfying his fascination with all the priests and wizards. Except that Euron cuts out her tongue and lashes her to the masthead beside Aeron. A pregnant woman and a holy man for sacrifice?
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Post by min on Aug 10, 2016 23:43:28 GMT
There is this about Cersei: (posted at Westeros)
If you will indulge a bit of crackpottry; looking at the text, there are a few things that stand out:
The dreams were even worse the second time. He saw the longships of the Ironborn adrift and burning on a boiling blood-red sea. He saw his brother on the Iron Throne again, but Euron was no longer human. He seemed more squid than man, a monster fathered by a kraken of the deep, his face a mass of writhing tentacles. Beside him stood a shadow in woman’s form, long and tall and terrible, her hands alive with pale white fire. Dwarves capered for their amusement, male and female, naked and misshapen, locked in carnal embrace, biting and tearing at each other as Euron and his mate laughed and laughed and laughed…
The Iron Throne places Euron at King's Landing and although I don't doubt that Ramsey Snow might send Melisandre to Euron at some point; I still think we are talking about Cersei. She certainly fits the definition of madness.
Dany's vision in the House of Undying:
In one room, a beautiful woman sprawled naked on the floor while four little men crawled over her. They had rattish pointed faces and tiny pink hands, like the servitor who had brought her *the glass of shade. One was pumping between her thighs. Another savaged her breasts, worrying at the nipples with his wet red mouth, tearing and chewing.
And these passages from aFfC:
FfC Cersei IX:
Lord Qyburn ran a hand up the Blue Bard's chest. "Does she take your nipples in her mouth during your love play?" He took one between his thumb and forefinger, and twisted. "Some men enjoy that. Their nipples are as sensitive as a woman's". The razor flashed, the singer shrieked. On his chest a wet red eye wept blood. Cersei felt ill. Part of her wanted to close her eyes, to turn away, to make it stop. But she was queen and this was treason. Lord Tywin would not have turned away.
*******
Cersei dreamt that she was down in the black cells once again, only this time it was her chained to the wall in place of the singer. She was naked, and blood dripped from the tips of her breasts where the Imp had torn off her nipples with his teeth. "Please," she begged, "Please, not my children, do not harm my children." Tyrion only leered at her. He was naked too, covered with coarse hair that made him look more like a monkey than a man. "You shall see them crowned," he said, "and you shall see them die." Then he took her bleeding breast into his mouth and began to suck, and *pain sawed through her like a hot knife.
Forget Tyrion the valonqar; these are dreams sent to torment Cersei and send her into madness. We know what Qyburn can make unGregor; can he make unCersei? Making tall shadows is Mel's specialty and Euron is collecting priests to use their holy blood.
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Post by min on Aug 10, 2016 23:44:11 GMT
And this about Melisandre: (posted at Westeros)
A Dance with Dragons:
“Lord Snow.” The voice was Melisandre’s. Surprise made him recoil from her. “Lady Melisandre.” He took a step backwards. ”I mistook you for someone else. At night all robes are grey. Yet suddenly hers were red. He did not understand how he could have taken her for Ygritte. She was taller, thinner, older, though the moonlight washed years from her face. Mist rose from her nostrils, and from pale hands naked to the night. “You will freeze your fingers off,” Jon warned.
“If that is the will of R’hllor. Night’s powers cannot touch one whose heart has been bathes in god’s holy fire.”
“Your heart does not concern me. Just your hands.”
A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre
She was stronger at the Wall, stronger even than in Asshai. Her every word and gesture more potent, and she could do things that she had never done before. Such shadows as I bring forth here will be terrible, and no creature of the dark will stand before them.
A Dance with Dragons – Jon III
Beneath the weeping Wall, Lady Melisandre raised her pale white hands. “We all must choose,” she proclaimed.
“We choose light or we choose darkness. We choose good or we choose evil. We choose the true god or the false.”
The red woman’s robes of deep-dyed scarlet swirled about her, and her coppery hair ad a halo round her face. Tall yellow flames danced from her fingertips like claws.
R’hllor was a jealous diety, ever hungry. So the new god devoured the corpse of the old, and cast gigantic shadows of Stannis and Melisandre upon the Wall, black against the ruddy red reflections on the ice.
Added: It also occurs to me that if he is collecting wizards and priests for their holy blood; he is planning some great magic. To be reborn as Azor Ahai? If the sword and the person are one in the same; then he needs water, the heart of a lion and the heart of fire. Aeron Damphair, Cersei Lannister and Melisandre. If he's looking for his rock wife: who better than Cersei from Casterly Rock.
** Or MeliCersei - if there's a Corpse Queen involved
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Post by min on Aug 10, 2016 23:46:08 GMT
And this about Euron's plan: (posted at Westeros)
The Undying are forever hungry feasting on the food of forever. He's the devourer of worlds. So far his ambitions are focused on Westeros but the breaking of the moon must be on his kill list. Dany the moon of Drogo's life. I wonder if the specific gods listed in the vision have a real world counterpart. New Gods: The Father, (Ned), the Mother (Catelyn), the Maid (Sansa), the Warrior (Jon), the Smith (Bran), the Stranger (Arya), the Crone (Dany). Old Gods: The Lord of Light (Melisandre), The Great Shepherd (Mirri Maaz Duur), Trios (CotF/greenseers/God's Eye), Bakkalon (the House of Black and White/Braavos); Naath the god of peace and harmony.
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Post by min on Aug 10, 2016 23:50:18 GMT
G'Night all, I'm reading and then off to bed. Many happy returns Ser Duncan; I hope your day has been fantastic and many more to come? I'd like to see that opinion piece AC. Don't be shy!
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Post by min on Aug 11, 2016 1:24:18 GMT
I'm going to say that Cersei with be the Corpse bride and rock wife and Melisandre will be the salt wife and woman with a tall shadow standing beside him with pale hands like white fire.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 11, 2016 2:18:55 GMT
Like having a secret sea dragon he doesn't want them telling anyone about? So sea dragons and krakens and what about a sphyx.... hmmmm. something to do with water. Something that flies in the water, body of a lion, tail of a snake, head like a man or woman. Merlings what are merlings? Something from the deep.... something prehistoric? A leviathan? The kraken is the sigil of the Greyjoys, and the dragon is the sigil of the Targaryens, but what is a leviathan? The Bible describes leviathans as great sea monsters. Ancient eastern origins describe leviathans as a seven headed serpent. Since Euron cut Baelor Blacktyde into seven pieces the inversion would be the Targaryens unifying the Seven Kingdoms by adopting the Faith of the Seven, whereas Euron intends to cut them apart. There’s also the possibility that the leviathan symbolism is the growing danger coming from the northern sea. The Drowned God would certainly fit symbolically as the old gods of the Children since they were forced north when the Targaryens adopted the Faith of the Seven.
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Post by min on Aug 11, 2016 18:18:12 GMT
So sea dragons and krakens and what about a sphyx.... hmmmm. something to do with water. Something that flies in the water, body of a lion, tail of a snake, head like a man or woman. Merlings what are merlings? Something from the deep.... something prehistoric? A leviathan? The kraken is the sigil of the Greyjoys, and the dragon is the sigil of the Targaryens, but what is a leviathan? The Bible describes leviathans as great sea monsters. Ancient eastern origins describe leviathans as a seven headed serpent. Since Euron cut Baelor Blacktyde into seven pieces the inversion would be the Targaryens unifying the Seven Kingdoms by adopting the Faith of the Seven, whereas Euron intends to cut them apart. There’s also the possibility that the leviathan symbolism is the growing danger coming from the northern sea. The Drowned God would certainly fit symbolically as the old gods of the Children since they were forced north when the Targaryens adopted the Faith of the Seven. Whales are mentioned but I think leviathans can be any giant creature of the deep. So I'm guessing a sea dragon is possible along with Krakens. There is the story of Euron throwing a dragon's egg overboard along with a wizard who couldn't figure out how to hatch the egg. I wonder what happens to a dragon's egg in the deep with the right magick. But I think when we are talking about a sphynx we're talking about massive armies coming together either to oppose Euron or in submission to Euron. The sphyx at the Citadel are head of a man and woman, body of a lion, tail of a snake and wings of a dragon. So this could equate to Dorne and the Sandsnakes; Aegon, the dragon and his sellswords and whatever army Cersei has cobbled together as the main body. But the lion is headless, because Cersei will lose to Euron and he will become the new head of the army. This is what Dany will have to face. This might also be what MMD means when she says: when mountains blow in the wind like leaves. The phrase blowing in the wind like leaves was used to describe another battle in the book. So we could be talking about a battle at the Mountains of the Moon. That night Tyrion Lannister dreamed of a battle that turned the hills of Westeros as red as blood. He was in the midst of it, dealing death with an axe as big as he was, fighting side by side with Barristan the Bold and Bittersteel as dragons wheeled across the sky above them. In the dream he had two heads, both noseless. His father led the enemy, so he slew him once again. Then he killed his brother Jaime, hacking at his face until it was a red ruin, laughing every time he struck a blow. Only when the fight was finished did he realise that his second head was weeping.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 11, 2016 19:43:57 GMT
I think when we are talking about a sphynx we're talking about massive armies coming together either to oppose Euron or in submission to Euron. The sphyx at the Citadel are head of a man and woman, body of a lion, tail of a snake and wings of a dragon. So this could equate to Dorne and the Sandsnakes; Aegon, the dragon and his sellswords and whatever army Cersei has cobbled together as the main body. But the lion is headless, because Cersei will lose to Euron and he will become the new head of the army. I really like this interpretation of the symbolism. It works for me.
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Post by Maester Flagons on Aug 14, 2016 13:48:06 GMT
I don't think Euron is any more magical than the average person. By that I mean he has no abilities in the magics/gods he is attempting to conquer. Since Euron has nothing in the realms of the mystical, he destroys whatever he can to make himself look all the more powerful. This has brought him many followers who will do his bidding, and that is just plain old power. A king's power or a lord's power. A priest's power, even, like Aeron. He needs magic horns, warlocks, priests, maesters, etc. In other words, Euron don't know jack from squat. He needs other folks to do his bidding, just like Victarion does with Aeron and Moqorro. The difference is... Euron is nuts over a banana split.
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Post by min on Aug 14, 2016 14:10:46 GMT
I don't think Euron is any more magical than the average person. By that I mean he has no abilities in the magics/gods he is attempting to conquer. Since Euron has nothing in the realms of the mystical, he destroys whatever he can to make himself look all the more powerful. This has brought him many followers who will do his bidding, and that is just plain old power. A king's power or a lord's power. A priest's power, even, like Aeron. He needs magic horns, warlocks, priests, maesters, etc. In other words, Euron don't know jack from squat. He needs other folks to do his bidding, just like Victarion does with Aeron and Moqorro. The difference is... Euron is nuts over a banana split. When you get right down to brass tacks, I agree. He's a magic user and I think he's aligned with magic users at the Citadel among other places. He could be all sorcery and glass candles.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 14, 2016 18:37:34 GMT
I don't think Euron is any more magical than the average person. By that I mean he has no abilities in the magics/gods he is attempting to conquer. Since Euron has nothing in the realms of the mystical, he destroys whatever he can to make himself look all the more powerful. This has brought him many followers who will do his bidding, and that is just plain old power. A king's power or a lord's power. A priest's power, even, like Aeron. He needs magic horns, warlocks, priests, maesters, etc. Exceedingly true. Like the old adage about teachers -- those that can, do. those that can't, teach. In Euron's case, I wonder if he was not a failed pupil of some sort, be it greenseer, sorcerer or maester. What he can not control, he destroys. That is quite true of RL psychopaths. Either they destroy what they can't have or they find a way to harness it so that it looks like they've conquered whatever it is they're after. Nice Flagons! Hadn't looked at it from this PoV before.
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Post by min on Aug 23, 2016 12:29:00 GMT
Ah ha! Nagga's descendants live on! I like that. The horn he has is control this leviathan. I think it's possible to interpret Patchface's pronouncements as relating to the Ironborn and Euron in particular. We have the reference to Urrathon Night-Walker and a warning to Dany about the glass candles both from Quaithe who says the glass candles are burning and Xaro Xhoan Daxos who tells her the glass candles are burning in the House of Urrathon Night-Walker after she burns down the House of Undying. The name Urratthon can be directly related to Urrathon Goodbrother who wins the Driftwood Crown by killing all his brothers. He becomes known as Urrathon Badbrother. Something that Aeron is concerned that Euron will emulate and later confesses in WoW. Urraton Badbrother comes from the Greyiron branch and their sigil is a banded black horn on a field of red. A horn of that description now in Euron's possession- dragon binder. They claim descent from the Grey King. The Grey King wears a gown of seaweed and the drowned men of the tale are priests of the drowned god, also wear seaweed. Seahorses are ships and fishes are everyone else who is not iron born or a drowned man. The Silence is a seahorse with a mermaid at her Bow, he comes blowing a horn. Like the Grey King, Euron's ambition is to steal fire and use it to become a god. awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Urrathon_IV_Goodbrotherawoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_GreyironPatchface talks about the Iron Born: Under the sea the mermen feast on starfish soup, and all the serving men are crabs merman - ironborn starfish - followers of the Faith of the Seven crabs - armored fighting men
Under the sea, the birds have scales for feathers. I know. I know… scales for feathers - armor
It is always summer under the sea. The merwives wear nennymoans in their hair and weave gowns of silver seaweed. I know. I know… merwives - rock wives seaweed gowns - worn by priest of the drowned god
Under the sea it snows up, and the rain is dry as bone. I know. I know… snowing up - dead bodies rising in the water rain is dry as bone - winter is coming
Under the sea, you fall up. I know. I know falling up - drowning and floating
Here we eat fish, under the sea, the fish eat us. I know. I know krakens
Under the sea no one wears hats. I know. I know no one - death; the Stranger hats - helms
Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black. “I know, I know, oh, oh, oh kraken (plural) rising in clouds of ink; shimmering blue and green
Under the sea the old fish eat the young fish. Up here the young fish teach the old fish. old fish - priests of the drowned god young fish - drowned children
In the dark the dead are dancing the dead - drowned men - what is dead can never die
Under the sea the crows are white as snow. carrion crows of the sea - kraken
I will lead it. We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh seahorses - ships seashells - horns awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Silence
Under the sea, men marry fishes fishes - salt wives
awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Grey_King
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