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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2016 0:22:41 GMT
One of the thoughts that I had was a focus on one person's desires and almost a single minded focus in general on focusing on personal goals/desires while holding less regard for the lives of others or of society at large. I'm not confident on Petyr's love interests besides Cat and maybe Sansa. Sounds sociopathic/psychopathic? Complete lack of empathy, and Machiavellian to boot. So Petyr is nailing the means, we just have to figure out the ends. I think so, yes.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 19, 2016 0:32:16 GMT
I'm currently researching a Marvel character that *I* think may be related to Littlefinger. It's part of the Thor/Asgard/Ragnarok arc, but it's not Loki. It's awesome, especially given the current conversation about his origin and long game.
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Post by min on Aug 19, 2016 1:00:40 GMT
Petyr has knowledge of the dungeons and secret passageways that might only come from Varys. Ned's chapter where he leads him to Cat in the brothel; he takes Ned down unused hallways, jokes about taking Ned down to the dungeons, slitting his throat and closing him up in a tomb; then outside the keep and down a cliff with barely visible footholds. Petyr scampers down them like a monkey. These are all things that led me down the "are Baelish and Varys connected?" path. How does Baelish know all this? The big deal was made about Maegor building the Red Keep with all its twists and bends and allowing only Targaryens to know the secrets. And Varys is suspected by many to be a Blackfyre or Brightflame....so what is Petyr? I am trying to ferret out a Targ connection - AND a Reyne connection, or some other family that might have a grudge against the Lannisters. Remember, Baelish says to play the game, often one's actions must contradict one's best interests. What if he is both? I'm completely lost about bloodlines and houses. I wait for people here to tell me what's going on. LOL! But the business about taking Ned down to the dungeon, slitting his throat and walling him up in a tomb; makes me wonder what happens to Vary's little birds when they get too old to use in the ratways of KL. The don't have tongues, so they can't speak. Does he send them out into the world or slit their throats in the dungeon? This is the big disconnect with Varys. He says he's doing everything for the realm and for the children and yet he asks Illyrio to acquire more children; but please try not to hurt them when their tongues are cut out and enslaved to Varys. Preferably children who can read and write; some of whom will die. This is completely at odds with someone who cares about children.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 19, 2016 1:16:20 GMT
But the business about taking Ned down to the dungeon, slitting his throat and walling him up in a tomb; ... sounds suspiciously like denying the bones to the family!
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Post by min on Aug 19, 2016 2:06:38 GMT
... sounds suspiciously like denying the bones to the family! No kidding. Petyr mentions crypts somewhere too, although I can't find the quote anymore.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 19, 2016 2:10:24 GMT
But the business about taking Ned down to the dungeon, slitting his throat and walling him up in a tomb ... sounds suspiciously like denying the bones to the family! But on the flip side of that token, there's also Varys who blindfolds Tyrion as he takes him through the lowest level of the Black Cells. What's down there that Tyrion shouldn't see?
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Post by min on Aug 19, 2016 2:22:54 GMT
But on the flip side of that token, there's also Varys who blindfolds Tyrion as he takes him through the lowest level of the Black Cells. What's down there that Tyrion shouldn't see? OMG! Faces on a wall? A stockpile of wildfire?
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 19, 2016 17:25:21 GMT
It would for sure be very interesting if he did have these motivations due to revenge for his family. But I agree it would be fitting if all of actions were due in part because he couldn't have the girl he wanted. For me at least it would be also fitting that so much death and destruction could have been prevented. Makes me think of a Helen of Troy situation. I agree, we shouldn't underestimate the power of obsessive, unrequited love when it comes to Petyr's motivations. What he can't have he will destroy. Very much like Agamemnon and Menelaus.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 19, 2016 17:33:28 GMT
But the business about taking Ned down to the dungeon, slitting his throat and walling him up in a tomb Where is this from Min? I have no recollection of Petyr saying that to Ned. It's quite telling of Petyr's motivations if he threatens Ned with this fate.
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Post by min on Aug 19, 2016 17:46:03 GMT
Where is this from Min? I have no recollection of Petyr saying that to Ned. It's quite telling of Petyr's motivations if he threatens Ned with this fate. This is from the chapter in GoT when Petyr takes Ned to see Catelyn in his Brothel after the small council meeting. She is bringing his the news of the assassination attempt on Bran and the knife. I believe I quoted the full passage upthread.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 19, 2016 17:52:37 GMT
This is from the chapter in GoT when Petyr takes Ned to see Catelyn in his Brothel after the small council meeting. She is bringing his the news of the assassination attempt on Bran and the knife. I believe I quoted the full passage upthread. Ta, Min. I must have missed it, there is so much in this thread to consider, lol!
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Post by min on Aug 19, 2016 17:56:41 GMT
Ta, Min. I must have missed it, there is so much in this thread to consider, lol! Oh shoot, maybe I didn't quote it but paraphrased. It's Eddard IV. Petyr displays an uncommon knowledge and familiarity with the secret ways of the castle. Including the steps down the cliff which he is so familiar, he scampers down like a monkey. He had to learn it from someone and I'm guessing Varys on that score.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 20, 2016 0:55:25 GMT
I think Marwyn is a bastard son of Tywin as well as Petyr. For me it seems as though Petyr is only looking out for himself. It makes me wonder if he would have a higher goal in mind such as a restoration of the Targs or maybe a breakdown of the 7 kingdoms into smaller kingdoms. To quote another series, "some men just want to see the world burn." I agree that there is something much more important going on with Petyr. It would for sure be very interesting if he did have these motivations due to revenge for his family. I am trying to ferret out a Targ connection - AND a Reyne connection, or some other family that might have a grudge against the Lannisters. Guys...I had a brain moment. We've been talking about Petyr possbily being a last Reyne - giving him plenty of motivation to take down the Lannisters - but the timeline doesn't fit for his birth in 268. BUT. Consider this, "this" being all the stuff below that I'm blatantly copying from the Wiki. " Tytos Lannister's mistress was a lowborn woman that Lord Tytos Lannister took for his bedwarmer after his wife Jeyne Marbrand's passing, a few years before he died. Her name is unknown. Lord Tytos's comely mistress was a commonborn woman, the daughter of a candlemaker. Tytos soon began seating her beside him in the hall and showering her with gifts and honors, even asking her views on matters of state. She helped herself to Tytos's deceased wife's jewels and clothes. She also began ordering about the household knights, dismissed servants and sat in attendance when Tytos was absent. She grew so influential that it was said about Lannisport that any man who wished for his petition to be heard should kneel before her and speak loudly to her lap … for Lord Tytos's ear was between his lady's legs. In 267 AC, Lord Tytos died of a heart attack while climbing stairs to see her. The first thing his heir Tywin Lannister did on his ascension was to expel his father’s grasping lowborn mistress from Casterly Rock. All the self-seekers who had named themselves her friends and cultivated her favor abandoned her. The silks and velvets Tytos had lavished on her and the jewelry she had taken for herself was stripped from her. Tywin had her stripped and sent forth naked to walk through the streets of Lannisport to the docks, so the west could see her for what she was. Though no man laid a hand on her, that walk spelled the end of her power." " Vain and proud she was, before ... so haughty you'd think she'd forgot she came from dirt. Once we got her clothes off her, though, she was just another whore.” – guard of House Lannister Tytos died in 267 in the middle of their affair. Petyr is born in 268. If Tytos' death was toward the latter half of the year and his mistress was newly pregnant at the time of her walk of shame...and that mistress fled to another part of Westeros, like, for example, the port city of Gulltown where Baelish says Alayne Stone's mother died giving birth to her... Petyr could be TYWIN'S HALF BROTHER.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 20, 2016 1:00:38 GMT
Petyr could be TYWIN'S HALF BROTHER. DUDE it works.
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Post by min on Aug 20, 2016 1:10:59 GMT
Petyr could be TYWIN'S HALF BROTHER. Awesome! Or Tywin could have raped her and Petyr is his son? "Vain and proud she was, before ... so haughty you'd think she'd forgot she came from dirt. Once we got her clothes off her, though, she was just another whore
What do Tywin's men do with whores? He has to be a Lannister one way or t'other.
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